Unmasking the Protector: Ashley Jones on Vulnerability and Personal Growth in Law Enforcement

Jerry: 0:15

Welcome to today's episode of Enduring the Badge Podcast. I'm host Jerry Dean Lund and if you haven't already done so, please take out your phone and hit that subscribe button. I don't want you to miss an upcoming episode. And hey, while your phone's out, please give us a rating and review. On whichever platform you listen to this podcast on, such as iTunes, apple Podcasts and Spotify. It helps this podcast grow and the reason why, when this gets positive ratings and reviews, those platforms like Apple Podcasts and Spotify show this to other people that never listened to this podcast before, and that allows our podcast to grow and make a more of an impact on other people's lives. So if you would do that, I would appreciate that from the bottom of my heart. My very special guest today is Ashley Jones. How are you doing, Ashley?

Ashley: 0:56

I'm doing pretty good. A little bit tired, a little bit cold, but yeah, we're just talking about that, excuse me.

Jerry: 1:04

Yeah, I have a cold, but Ashley's in the cold in the New York area.

Ashley: 1:11

Correct Central New York. It's been a little bit cooler these past few days, Nothing horrible. It's been worse, but I'm not good for the cold. The cold will go on too.

Jerry: 1:26

Ashley, tell the audience a little bit about yourself.

Ashley: 1:31

So I am a law enforcement officer in the area. I have over 10 years of law enforcement experience. I'm also a mental and physical growth expert and I just started my life coaching business last June for my 34th birthday.

Jerry: 1:48

Oh nice, it's very nice. Ashley. Let's tell the audience a little bit about your business and why you got into it.

Ashley: 1:56

So I don't know if you've heard the phrase. I pray and heal from the things that you don't talk about. So I've gone through a lot of traumatic things for me growing up, being bullied, going through date, rape, forceful touching incidents, working long hours, working overnight hours. I just knew that I was able to do something better and provide more for not only myself but for other law enforcement officers from the stuff that they don't talk about. Yeah.

Jerry: 2:36

Why do you think they don't talk about it?

Ashley: 2:40

It's very stigmatized. Mental health, anything that shows vulnerability in and of itself is not considered tough. It's not considered as normal of what a first responder would deal with, I guess. So it's a huge stigma.

Jerry: 3:00

What about vulnerability? It makes it. Why is it so hard for people that you've noticed to be vulnerable about things?

Ashley: 3:09

So, for example, as a law enforcement officer, you're just supposed to be a tough callous, well put together. You go to all these calls. You're not supposed to show too much emotion, because you're there to deal with the situation at hand rather than feeling and processing your own emotions. So after you digress and you can feel through the things, that's true vulnerability, to be able to talk about that. A lot of officers don't, because they don't want to be like oh they're soft, oh they're weak, and that's a huge issue which shouldn't be there.

Jerry: 3:47

Do you think it's an issue to be tough and callous on calls?

Ashley: 3:50

Absolutely so. Being a woman, I'm more soft. I have my heart tied at 1,000%. But in regards to always showing up, tough is not always the best way to run into the situation.

Jerry: 4:09

I totally agree with you Little empathy or sympathy. There's other ways to handle situations than always just being tough and callous. That just doesn't work for everybody.

Ashley: 4:20

Correct. You kind of have to. Well, you're taught to empathize with the people as you should. I mean, you always have to sympathize because you might not know exactly what they're going to feel. I don't think what they're feeling, but you have to understand that they're calling you for a read and major help most of the time. Most of the time they're looking to understand what they're going through, to help them. So if you show up Muscles and guns blazing, it's not always going to be well received.

Jerry: 4:52

Yeah, and are you? Do you feel like you're trained for every situation? I mean, you didn't go to school, probably to be a counselor, did you?

Ashley: 5:00

No, but that's what we are literally that 90% of the time of the counselor, at least in my general area, it's more like counseling calls, so I am well versed in being that counselor person. We have to adapt to so many situations so you do have to be well rounded as an officer to be successful at it.

Jerry: 5:27

Yeah, I think it's probably a little difficult for some officers to be well rounded when they're so young and maybe not have had a lot of life experiences, so they're looking to other officers to see the way they handle it, and that's kind of the system that they use for a while for them to handle calls.

Ashley: 5:45

Right and necessarily, learning from other officers isn't always the best, because you have those rough callus officers once that are retired on duty. So while it is important to absorb everything that other officers tell you give you that you see, you also have to be your own person and a lot of people lose themselves throughout their career, not only in law enforcement but firefighting any first responder. You just lose who you were when you started and I don't like that. I always told people that if they see me become rough callus, retired on duty like literally tell me to retire, because at that point I'm not being helpful and that's a huge issue.

Jerry: 6:35

So, yeah, you're just there collecting a check when you turn into that person, right, and I think for most people they don't, definitely don't want to be, like, labeled as that person and I think some people might just happen to, right, they don't, they're not self aware enough to know that that's the position they've, kind of like, assumed.

Ashley: 6:56

Correct Self-awareness in your own personal accountability is huge. If you can take accountability for your shortcomings or maybe I need to learn this, maybe I need to learn that, or I could have handled this situation better Anything where you can take yourself accountable and learn from it, that's great, because you're not always going to go up on a call and be your best self. But if you can learn from it after the fact, that's very important.

Jerry: 7:26

Do you think that's a skill to learn from things? Do you think there is that something that's taught by your FTO or in the academy?

Ashley: 7:36

No, I mean technically, it can be a learned skill. I think it's also within the person themselves. Are they arrogant and they don't care? Do they want to do better? Like you, have to choose your heart. So if you want to go into it thinking you're the best when you're actually not the best and you don't want to learn, you're not going to be as successful as people who are willing to learn from their shortcomings.

Jerry: 8:10

Do you think you've been through a lot as a person? Does that help you become a better officer?

Ashley: 8:20

Oh, 1000%. But it's also shaped how I react to certain calls as well, because I mean, like I've done like my inner child work, if you will, so like I understand why I act a certain way and I it's very important for others to understand why they act a certain way as well. So, with my trauma is it has made me more sensitive to people's issues because I can relate to them or I can sympathize with them.

Jerry: 8:51

So Self-reflection is really important right To sit with these emotions and these feelings and process them. Is that something that comes natural, or do you feel? Or is that something that needs to be maybe taught to people?

Ashley: 9:11

So it's natural to feel your emotions, but a lot of first responders suppress them because they're not vulnerable. It's stigmatized to talk about it, but you have to. It's something that I've had to learn more of. Like I'm more of the type where I'll feel all the feels but I still won't tell anybody about it. Like I'll work through my problems on my own, and I've done that for a very, very long time. So, whether you work through your problems on your own or if you talk to someone, you have to work through the issues or it's going to create further issues down the road.

Jerry: 9:46

At what point did you realize that you needed to work through your issues?

Ashley: 9:55

Because I feel like I've had so many life experiences where I've tried to adapt to each one. So the bullying portion that would have started from grade school all the way up to when I lost weight because I used to be like Wicked OB that was 236 pounds at my highest, at least that I remember. So working through that that was something for me. That was more of a determination factor for me and the whole like choose your hard situation. At that point I was just sick of being bullied Like it gets old. So I took accountability for my actions, how I became overweight and I made that change for myself and that provided a lot of mental health issues as well. Along the road, big turning points for me was when I developed anxiety, depression, stuff like that. So I turned to podcasts, books, anything to pull myself out because I knew that I could do better, like I would be suicidal but I didn't actually want to kill myself. You know what I mean. But, I was just so low that I had to find ways to pull myself out.

Jerry: 11:19

Yeah, you got to see this. If you're just listening to this, ashley is pretty Wicked fit now. So I mean that has taken some incredible dedication to do that, so props to you. That's incredible, which leans in towards the coaching and stuff that you do. You take some, or probably a lot of what you learned into that.

Ashley: 11:46

Correct and like. That's what makes me an expert in both areas of the mental and physical growth. Because I've lived through it, I know what it takes to set the goals and stay determined to get those accomplished. I think the maximum amount of weight I lost was a hundred and some odd pounds, and I've done this all on my own, like it wasn't any weight loss surgery or anything like that. I just put in the work. That also set me at a deficit when I went to the academy, like I didn't have the muscle and the speed that all the other recruits did, so I got picked on a lot. But I also won the award for most improved in physical fitness when I graduated from the academy. So when you're going from 236 plus pounds to now receiving an award for physical fitness as most improved, like that's a pretty solid accomplishment for weight loss. So that was pretty cool.

Jerry: 12:50

So I have to ask this how did you celebrate that moment?

Ashley: 12:57

Well, I mean, you can't really celebrate it when you get the award.

Jerry: 13:00

I mean at some point, right, you had to be like that was so cool, that was awesome. You know, because sometimes people, we take these big, long journeys right, and we get to there, to the end of this accomplishment, and they're like, ok, what's next? Because we really didn't take the time to celebrate that long. I'm sure it was a long journey to get to where you're at today or to receive that award.

Ashley: 13:22

Yes, I don't remember how I really celebrated. It involves a party right, so it was on display. I don't celebrate my weight loss as much as I should Like. More recently I've become more confident. So with being bullied and that weight issue you lose your lack of confidence. But over the past year I've been really working on that and I'm just now starting to realize like how much I have accomplished. It does make me proud, but I could do better.

Jerry: 14:00

You definitely should be proud. That was how long of a journey was that?

Ashley: 14:07

So probably so. I graduated I was in college in 2009 and at that point that's when I was around like 236. So that would have put me around the age of 20, 21-ish. Then I had gotten a job where I was working right next to a plant fitness, so I would just go back and forth every single day that I worked to the gym. So the actual drop in weight took a few years. But then to obtain the muscle took a lot more. Like in the academy, I was doing two workouts a day for five days a week, just so that I could be at the standard at the end of the academy that all the other people were. So I really had to go hard Like it wasn't easy by any means, but it's all done now.

Jerry: 15:06

Well, you have to maintain it right now. So it's just a different challenge. I'm sure you're going through.

Ashley: 15:12

Correct. At the age I am, my hormones are changing. Weight loss is no longer easy at this point, so it's literally just a maintenance thing. I just listen to my body. I do what makes me feel best. I do have two-chorten hip leg rooms that I went through on the academy with, so I just listen to my body. I don't push too hard anymore. I just stay physically fit enough for my career and what I need to do. Then I just go with it like that.

Jerry: 15:43

So yeah, can you explain a little bit of your mindset when you're going through that weight loss journey? That took a little while, like. What mindset did you develop to make you want to keep going each day?

Ashley: 15:58

So I definitely was not motivated. I still am not motivated for a lot of things. I'm very burned out for work, but I am very determined. That's what I had during that weight loss process that I was determined. I set a goal, I learned and I practiced and I obtained what I was going for. Because what most people know is that motivation only lasts for a couple of weeks Because you're motivated, you're excited, but that excitement fades. So you really have to stay determined, otherwise you're not going to accomplish what you seek to accomplish if it's a long term goal.

Jerry: 16:39

So Did you hit a few stumbling blocks along the way?

Ashley: 16:44

Oh, absolutely. I mean more so now than the last few years Because I try to find balance between work life, home life. Like I own a home by myself, I adopted a dog, I work a lot, so trying to find that motivation and determination to work out, do things around the house that that's probably been my biggest stumbling point is trying to figure out how to get everything done and still feel accomplished at the end of each day.

Jerry: 17:19

Yeah, I mean there's. There's only so much time in a day, right, To get all these, all these things done. Are you able to help people with their mindset and to be determined to accomplish their goals?

Ashley: 17:33

Yeah, absolutely so. Like as a life coach, we offer I offer the ability to help you shift your perspective for life changing issues. So work on mindset, confidence, your inner child work, maybe emotional baggage, what you want to accomplish in your career, goal setting, health goals, stuff like that. So I have been helping people with that for years. But because I've been doing that, I was like, well, let me just start a business doing it and feel a little bit more accomplished. You know what I mean. Right now I do one on one, but I do want to bring this to academy level and then annual in service trainings, because they train you in service for so many other things but they never take your mental state into account.

Jerry: 18:30

So yeah, and sometimes they don't take your physical state in account, right Either.

Ashley: 18:37

Yeah, there's a lot of heavy hitters out there, so, yes, they definitely at least up here. They don't have the physical requirements, but I mean it would be nice even if, like insurance companies or your agencies in general, allow you a free membership. That would definitely motivate people to go to the gym more, or at least give them some sort of incentive with it, just to get them out there. Because there's a big issue when you get out of the academy not everybody stays physically fit.

Jerry: 19:13

Right.

Ashley: 19:14

Problem because you have to be physically fit for this career.

Jerry: 19:18

So do you think part of the problem with being physically fit in this career is just the amount of time you spend at work and the crazy schedules and lack of sleep and where do I find the time to be physically fit? And I'm sure you know as much as I know that is the right physical fitness and mental fitness or go hand in hand.

Ashley: 19:45

Yeah, absolutely. So you do run out of time. But that goes back to me like choosing your heart. Do you want to spend 40 minutes at the gym at least, like walking, so that way your heart can be better on a call? Or do you want to have a heart attack when you're chasing after somebody because you're so overweight and you're too empty up and your body doesn't know how to deal with it? So that's an extreme scenario, obviously, but that's just one thing that could happen. So I mean, it's hard to find that balance, but you can find that balance. You just have to choose to find it.

Jerry: 20:23

Yeah, throughout my career I always wanted to retire healthy enough to enjoy all those the your pension right to enjoy your pension. You worked so hard and so long to get to that point. If you don't take care of yourself along the way, what happens when you collect your retirement, your pension? You're, you don't have the quality of life that you wanted to have, and so it's. It's difficult. I see way too many people just get to the finish line.

Ashley: 20:52

You're like and I've done exactly exactly Like you want to live a fulfilling life. I don't think, even as a first responder, you can live a fulfilling life. Being physically fit just gives you more energy in general than being like a bump on a log. So naturally, when you get out of work, you have free time, you're going to want to do things, so I think it's very important for agencies to step up their game with that for sure.

Jerry: 21:22

Definitely. I wanted to go back to something you brought up a couple times and that's your inner child. I'm sure some people that are listening want to understand that. Maybe a little bit more.

Ashley: 21:34

Sure, there's a book and I can't remember what the book is. I was introduced by Autumn Clifford. I don't know if you've ever heard of her, but she's the one who made me realize like the way I am, the way I am, it's because of the things that happened to me when I was younger, and that's how everybody is. You are who you are now because of your past experiences. So, in a non like, I don't know in the easiest way to explain it would be anything that happened to you in your childhood when your brain was really just trying to develop and process things. So for me, for instance, being bullied and then having bad relationships with men, my main issue is boundaries, and I'm a people pleaser because I didn't receive that love or and that would be from peers I didn't receive that and then, with the trauma that happened with men growing as I grew, I'm sorry those boundaries were lacking as well. So that was a huge thing for me. To realize is that my lack of boundaries, my people pleasing skills, comes from a trauma when I was a kid.

Jerry: 22:58

So and then, how does that shape what you do today and into the future?

Ashley: 23:08

So that comes down to like more of a self-awareness, now that I know what my traumas are, where I need to hold myself accountable, where my boundaries need to be placed. It allows things to be easier for me. It allows me to realize why I act the way I do and if I can perform better. So my lack of boundaries I've had to really practice that over the past few years. I've had to hold myself accountable for a lot of my choices because I couldn't control what happened to me when I was younger to develop these issues, if you will. But now I have the ability to learn from them and control them so that I can live a better, more meaningful life. So but there are books out there, there's journals out there that you can use to figure out what your inner child is kind of like.

Jerry: 24:05

Yeah, the interesting thing. I heard the statistic and I don't know if it's true as today as we speak, but 70% of first responders had a traumatic childhood and they basically have not dealt with as they moved into the first responder world.

Ashley: 24:23

Yeah, and honestly, like talking to first responders, I could totally see in a trauma or an issue as a child. It's different to everybody but it literally shapes why you are the way you are and it's usually why we wanna help people when we get older, like it's instilled with us. We wanna help people to make things better for us or them, because we're trying to heal a wound that was presented to us.

Jerry: 24:47

So yeah, ashley. What one piece of advice would you want to give the first responders or their families that are listening today?

Ashley: 24:57

Gosh just one.

Jerry: 24:59

Oh, you could give two, you got.

Ashley: 25:03

So I don't know. I guess you could stay with it for a long time. I guess, choose your heart and then remember your wounds, but don't become your wounds. It's fine to process through your emotions, but don't become those angry emotions that you're holding onto. You gotta move through the wounds. You can't stay there.

Jerry: 25:28

Yeah, I'm sure you're familiar with this book and maybe you've even read it. The Body Keeps a Score. No, oh wow you gotta read it or you can listen to it. It's like 16 hours. It's a really big, long book. I bet you'd really enjoy it. It's kinda how these traumatic experiences are held within your body and how they exhibit Like oh, I have this unexplained back pain and I've gone to the doctor and there's nothing wrong with me. They don't know what to do. And then I mean by reading that book, it'll help you put some things together, like, oh, this is why I have the back pain. Maybe it's because my personality is like I'm just carrying the load for everybody.

Ashley: 26:11

Yes, oh my God, I need to read that because it's kinda like what I'm saying, like, so, anything that I hold in my body, I know why it's held there because I've had the ability to process that inner child and why it is like. It is Like I have cervical issues and I know why my body holds the disease there because of what I've experienced. So that is actually the book for anyone who can't figure themselves out. I haven't, I'm not familiar.

Jerry: 26:46

Awesome Ashley. Where can people find you and follow you?

Ashley: 26:50

So my website is prerogridcoachingcom. On Instagram, I do have a prerogridcoaching business page, and then my personal is warriorwithgrace, and then I have a Facebook that is prerogridcoaching as well.

Jerry: 27:11

Awesome Ashley. Thank you so much for being on today and please, everyone, reach out to her and follow Ashley. I mean, she's got some great posts that she puts on her pages and help you get. Find maybe a little motivation turning into determination to get you to where you want to be yes, absolutely.

Ashley: 27:30

You have to stay determined or you're not gonna get there.

Jerry: 27:32

Yeah, thank you so much for being on today, Ashley.

Ashley: 27:35

Thank you.

Jerry: 27:38

Thanks again for listening. Don't forget to rate and review the show wherever you access your podcast. If you know someone that would be great on the show, please get ahold of our host, jerry Dean Lund, through the Instagram handles at Jerry Fire and Fuel or at EnduringTheBadgePodcast, also by visiting the show's website, enduringthebadgepodcastcom, for additional methods of contact and up-to-date information regarding the show. Remember, the views and opinions expressed during the show solely represent those of our host and the current episode's guests. Steme Music.