The Transformative Impact of Peer Support in Mental Health

Jerry D Lund: 0:04

Hi everyone and welcome to this week's episode of Entering the Badge Podcast. I'm host Jerry Dean Lund and I don't want you to miss an upcoming episode. So please hit that subscribe button and, while your phone is out, please do me a favor and give us a review on iTunes or our Apple Podcast. It says, hey, this podcast has a great message and we should send it out to more people. So please take that 30 seconds to a minute to do that review and just maybe by doing that it will push this up into someone's podcast feed that really needs this message. Number one I'm super excited to announce that I've teamed up with an incredible person, and that person is Dr Tia White. She is a public safety, wellness and empowerment specialist. Together, we have combined our knowledge and expertise to create a five day training course. Now that training course, you can attend different days of that training course, whichever ones fit you, but day one would be peer support and how to structure that and get your team up and running and maybe some of the legalities about that. Days two, three and four are going to be about advanced wellness and sleep and finances and family dynamics and diet and nutrition Complete first responder. For more details. I have two very special guests on the show today. I have Dr Tia White, a very culturally competent therapist, and I have Officer Jake Steyer. We're going to talk about peer support together. We're going to talk about how, what, why, what does it all look like? We're going to go into really good overview of peer support. So maybe if you're struggling to start a team, this will give you a great start. Or if you already have a team and maybe you want to be on one, you can learn some things. Or maybe it'll just give you some missing components. If you already have a peer support team that you're working with, and if you're a spouse listening to the show, this will give you a great perspective of what peer support is and how it's helping your first responders. Now let's jump right into this episode with my very special guest. Today we're going to have a discussion about peer support, something that I believe has been happening, you know, probably since maybe the dawn of time, or dawn of civilization, or maybe when civilizations started, like migrating from village to village. What do you think?

Speaker 2: 2:25

Yeah, i think so. I mean, we as humans have always been storytellers, narrative creatures. you know, that's how we communicate, we tell stories, but our lives share, our struggles, share our hobbies, our passions, the things we're interested in.

Jerry D Lund: 2:41

Right before writing, actually, like there's things being kind of crafted on walls and things like that telling stories. But what's the importance of like telling a story?

Speaker 2: 2:51

Well, I think telling the story is really connecting, you know, with your fellow humans, right, And you know sharing what you're going through, what you're experiencing.

Jerry D Lund: 3:04

Yeah, so when villagers would go from village to village, you know they'd be sharing their struggles and things like that along their way. But like, what does that do when they're showing their struggles along the way?

Speaker 3: 3:16

Well, it's really validating, you know to your point. For social creatures, it's in our genetics. We need each other right, we need to learn from each other, we need to know that we're not alone in this world and in the struggles that we have So to especially in those communities where they were so isolated and the only people that they really worked with or you know knew of were the ones that were already in their communities. So to have outsiders come in and say, hey, this has been my experience, it's like, wow, i'm not alone in this.

Jerry D Lund: 3:47

I'm like, okay, i feel better, now Someone's supporting me And you know, yeah, and that could look like something like in the United States, like back when people were coming to the United States and trying to travel across the country and trying to. You know, like in law enforcement, right, when law enforcement they were in their horseback and they had papers like here we're looking for this guy.

Speaker 3: 4:08

He's wanted you know like Wanted posters. Wanted posters Like.

Speaker 2: 4:12

Well, i had your, your Ruentail TV logo. Okay, you know, lawmen, as it were, traveling large amounts of territory, vast amounts of terrain and trying to enforce the laws, going after fugitives, going after, you know, wanted suspects, and so that form of communication, because it was so analog, it became really important to have that human connection when you encountered somebody out there, your fellow officer, right to talk not only about the work that you're doing and what's happening, but also, you know, hey, what's going on in your life. What are you seeing? Here's what I'm seeing out here. Here have been my struggles, here's how I've been successful. Here's how you could be successful too. You know, just checking in with each other. We've been doing that a long time.

Jerry D Lund: 5:01

Kind of like informal peer support way back then.

Speaker 2: 5:04

Yeah, yeah, i think so.

Jerry D Lund: 5:06

And then why would we want to like maybe take peer support to a whole another level and kind of like wrap that up into something that's actually has some structure?

Speaker 3: 5:15

I think culture has changed, it's shifted. I haven't really seen it the last five years or so in first responder world And we are encouraging more. We're trying to encourage more conversation about our mental health, about how things are going at home. You know, we have these ideas that we can just separate family life and work life. Right, but they bleed into each other. We don't get to choose how they affect us. Right, so to say. Let's take a relatively cynical, you know culture and that struggles to trust each other. I mean, you'll put your life down for each other, but actually trusting about your life, or you know something you're really struggling with because of the stigmas and all the things that surround that right. Right, let's, let's make it law, let's give you some extra protection so that, so that you can feel confident, or more confident, about talking to your peers about what's going on with you. You know, i mean, if you put it in perspective, there's really only a few people, a few professionals, that have confidential privilege, and that's what we're talking about is peers having confidential privilege. And you know, your lawyers and your doctors and mental health professionals, clergy, you know, sometimes spouses do, but but at least in the United States that's how that works, right, and every state's a little different, but same idea. And and now peer supporters can have that confidential privilege. I mean that is a really valuable and powerful place to be, because now I wasn't going to go and talk to you, even though I like you, but now I know you don't have, you don't have to tell anybody what we just talked about. And so if it's that one step that might save one of our brother or sister's lives, then let's take advantage of it.

Jerry D Lund: 7:04

Right. So so we're combining kind of something maybe we've been experts in for quite a while now is like helping each other with some mental health or some some struggles, and now we're adding some structure and some legalities to it to benefit. you know that, facilitating of information in a confidential manner, if that's dependent on where you you live and if that's what your laws allow to do it, which is very important, right, because we got to have that trust.

Speaker 2: 7:32

Yeah, and I think I think when we codify confidentiality and confidential privilege into law, we what we effectively create a safe environment for first responders to be vulnerable, to be empowered to discuss the things that they need help with, right to reach out, to take. Maybe that's that first step of trying to get some help, you know, after they've been through a particularly different difficult time or a difficult situation in their lives. Having that confidential privilege really creates that safe environment for them to be able to take those steps.

Speaker 3: 8:11

Well, and I really liked what you said, that first step right. Sometimes it's one step towards the services that you need, that's. That's all you needed. Was that one step right to get you into a better position to resources or whatever, and peer supporters? because you're on the front lines with your people, you're there with them, right? Therapists have hours, you know, nine to five, sometimes nine to seven eight to seven, i mean, whatever it is, it's later, not always around on weekends, right. And so peer supporters can help them. They have more mental health training, they have. They have more education, understanding how to do crisis interventions, you know, and. And they can bridge that gap buddy to buddy, friend to friend, until they can get them to that next step, which might be a mental health professional.

Jerry D Lund: 9:00

And that gap is very important, right? Because we know quite often when people are struggling with their mental health or just struggling in general, they feel alone. They feel like a deep sense of being alone. There's maybe no one that's ever gone through this with them before.

Speaker 2: 9:17

Yeah, absolutely, and I would say that's probably very common. But you know, like Dr White was saying, this idea of early storytelling being a method of validation, i really think that the concept, the idea of a peer support program, a peer supporter in general, is almost like a way to to validate someone's experience. But it's it's it's more focused, it's more useful, it's more empowering because it's it's legally protected, it's it's got all of the weight of the law behind it And it's working to benefit both officers, both first responders, both dispatchers, whoever it is that's involved in that conversation. And that form of validation can be incredibly powerful the first time you experience that.

Jerry D Lund: 10:16

Yeah, Yeah, And I think I mean another portion of peer support is like encouraging others to weed like a better life, a higher quality of life, right In this cultural that we are in first responder role, like I don't know that we do the best job of that.

Speaker 3: 10:34

No, we don't. There's efforts being made but we don't. You guys are masterfully trained in tactics, right, and how to handle yourself in a dangerous situation, but mental health and how to handle those emotional and psychological challenges is not a strength of the training world. in the training world, right. But we again, as social creatures, right, we learn from each other, and especially in first responder community, we really do. look at our mentors, look at the people that we wanna be like, to see how they're doing stuff. So, as a peer supporter, you get to rise above kind of those stigma and those negative things and show maybe the younger guys or even some of the older guys and gals that are trying to be better and do better, right, yeah, how to live a better. and here's my thing, you guys and maybe this is just my therapist's brain, but I just believe that everybody deserves a high quality of life And for the sacrifice that you guys put into your jobs and what you do for the communities, you deserve that.

Jerry D Lund: 11:46

I think you're right, i think we do deserve that And I think, unfortunately, a lot of us don't really embrace that that we deserve that And I think that maybe we just take that in as part of our job, as being in service is that when you serve someone else or in service of the first responder world that you decide to take a less better life in some ways or quality.

Speaker 2: 12:11

Everyone above you before you take care of yourself. And what I think we fail to recognize sometimes is it's the airplane analogy, right? They always tell you when you're on the airplane, before you take off, if the oxygen mask comes down, put the oxygen mask on yourself before you try to help somebody else, because if you're not getting oxygen, you're not gonna be able to stay awake long enough to help that other person. And so sometimes we need to prioritize right, We need to prioritize our well-being so that we can help and serve our communities and our fellow first responders, And that's where I think peer support really excels.

Speaker 3: 12:52

Well, and do your best. I know that without a doubt in the first responder community you guys wanna do your best, right?

Jerry D Lund: 12:58

Yeah definitely.

Speaker 3: 12:59

And peer supporters have that ability to show what that can really look like healthily.

Jerry D Lund: 13:05

In this section we're gonna talk about the mission of peer supporters, because you can't be a very good peer support team without a mission, right, i mean? and missions look different for every type of first responder culture or community or division or whatever. So we gotta like talk about the mission, but the mission really doesn't change, no matter what field you're in.

Speaker 3: 13:29

Missions are important for to your point, not just across cultures and first responder cultures, but in corporations right, they help all the people know what they're aiming for. And in peer support, we wanna make sure that everybody's staying in a really healthy path, because it can be a lot to hear your peers struggling right, or to try to get resources and just learn them yourself. So the mission of a peer supporter the way that I like to define it, the way that we've worked on is to empower, support and connect. It's just three simple words And I think it defines what a peer supporter is supposed to be doing. Every decision can be framed on that.

Jerry D Lund: 14:11

So we can stay in. If we use this language or use these three parts of our mission, we can stay in our lane because that's something that we need to do as peer supporters. When we're empowering, supporting, connecting, like that looks a little bit different from as peer supporters. Then maybe a clinician.

Speaker 2: 14:29

Right, because, as a peer supporter, I am not a clinician.

Speaker 3: 14:34

I just wanna make that clear I am not a clinician.

Speaker 2: 14:37

And so in that role as a peer supporter, there's things that I can do and things that I can't do, cannot do, and so I view my role as a peer supporter as being that bridge and guiding people towards the appropriate resources, rather than trying to be an appropriate resource myself out of that context, that proper context.

Jerry D Lund: 15:04

Yeah, how can we empower our peers?

Speaker 3: 15:08

Empowering is like my favorite thing ever. It's like my favorite word in the American or English language right. Because it's all about helping each other find our internal strengths So it's things we already have available to us and then helping them use it so that we feel strong enough to do what needs to be done. And as peers, we are in a position that we can see that differently, so hard for us to look in the mirror all the time and notice our strengths. We're much better at seeing our weaknesses. So as a peer, i can look at you. I can look at you guys and say, oh my gosh, you have an amazing ability with the community members. You just really connect with them. And, jerry, you're really great at being patient with really difficult people. Those are powerful strengths. So how do we use those strengths to get through our hard things?

Jerry D Lund: 16:04

Right, seriously, this is kind of like in maybe some of those times of struggle and stuff like that is reminding people that they do have these strengths, that there's things in there that they can. These abilities are ready there. You've already gone through some things, so let's find those things you've gone through and let's build off those. But I mean, let's talk about supporting them. Like, how is a peer supporter, can I support them if I'm staying in my own lane, right, and I'm not being a clinician?

Speaker 2: 16:31

So one of the things that I like to do is just the simple act of listening. right Listening can be the most, one of the most validating things that we can do, because oftentimes we don't feel heard right And sometimes we just want someone to listen to us, And so that's a powerful tool. It seems simple enough, but it's a lot harder to do than you think, especially if you're a problem solver, like we tend to be in first responder world Fixers?

Jerry D Lund: 17:00

Yeah, we want to fix everything right.

Speaker 2: 17:02

But sometimes just by listening is enough.

Speaker 3: 17:07

Well, and normalizing, and that's part of validation. But how many first responders are out there that think they're broken? How many are out there that think that because they're experiencing, you know, certain reactions physical reactions because their body and their brain are just overwhelmed with what is going on? right, That they just think that they there's no hope and they don't know what to do, right? So to normalize that and to have your peer say to you bro, it's all good, I've been there, You'll get through it, I'm with you.

Jerry D Lund: 17:38

And that's a whole part of the thing about back to going like you're not alone, You're not alone in this. But you know. so now connect like connection. I know this is going to seem very difficult for a lot of first responders like but connecting emotionally, psychologically, socially, socially, those are some things that generally, i would say a lot of first responders probably want to shy away from.

Speaker 2: 18:03

Yeah, i think there can be a tendency to do that. At the same time, i think we feel it when we are connecting, it's meaningful to us and it's very powerful. Some of the ways that we do that go back to that idea of supporting. Oh, this person is really listening to me, they're giving their time, they care about, they're showing me, they care. They're not just telling me, they're spending the time. Maybe they're doing something with me to let me know. Maybe they're being a little vulnerable themselves and talking about their past experience and sharing how they got through that. That can be a powerful connection.

Jerry D Lund: 18:47

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 18:48

Well, i think connection is actually two parts. You've got the human heart. I call heart to heart, right.

Speaker 4: 18:54

The heart to heart connection.

Speaker 3: 18:55

I know it's hard. But, you know what You guys are actually really masterful at it. You connect really well with each other. That's why peer support is successful when it's done well and done right, but it's heart to heart connection and then it's also connecting to the right resources. To your point, jake, you're not a clinician, right? Right, i mean I am, but that's my role, right, you're not a clinician, but you should. This is me trying to protect you. I have training you don't have. I don't go and breach doors. I don't have training in that, right, so everyone stay in their lane and just know who to refer out to.

Jerry D Lund: 19:32

Yeah, Yeah. So just you know, keep in mind, right? The mission is pretty simple. We're just going to empower people, support them and connect them and stay in our own lane.

Speaker 3: 19:42

And stay in your lane.

Jerry D Lund: 19:44

In this section we're going to talk about actually what this looks like within your department or whatever structure that you're operating in. Like, how do we develop a peer support team? and maybe, like, we'll just briefly touch on the structure of it, because the structure can get really in depth on like, we can really talk about a lot of structure, but really this what we're trying to do is give you an overview of how you get when started, or how maybe even get in the discovery phase of getting the team started. So, like, who do we even want on this peer support team, and maybe we even shouldn't? that's where we should start.

Speaker 3: 20:18

Yeah, i think we have to look well who's on a peer support team? Who? who are the players in the department that are part of that? Right, i mean it starts with your trusted peers, right? The people that people look up to already right, and there's a diverse way to recruit individuals. That would be quality members. And you should do a diverse way because not everybody will volunteer but maybe if you ask them directly they might, right? So then you've got chaplains, you've got mental health professionals, right, there's even considering spouses. When they have a very specific role in the peer support team, they're really powerful because not always will the officer or the firefighter, the medic or the dispatcher divulge what's going on, but having a spouse or a partner be able to communicate that somebody's struggling can really get them help that they need. So these are the people that should be part of it. You know you have to look at ranks, right? I mean, jake, look at your peer support team. You know what have you guys done to make it diverse?

Speaker 2: 21:22

Yeah, we've got members across both sworn and non sworn positions and across rank. So we've got sergeants in my specific department, we've got line officers, we have mid level supervisors like sergeants, we've got administrators like lieutenants, and then we have, like we have secretaries, we have records clerks, we have dispatchers and dispatch supervisors. So we have a pretty diverse kind of makeup along that line And it makes sense to do that because you know it's more opportunities for more people to connect with as many people in the department as possible which is also part of the mission.

Speaker 3: 22:06

That's right.

Jerry D Lund: 22:07

Yeah, i mean perspective, right. I mean we have people for different perspectives. I think we don't really understand other people's perspectives or point of view sometimes, because we've never, like, walked in their shoes. So sometimes you know that diversity is like maybe I'm not the right guy, jake, to help you. Maybe a different person on the team is the right guy to help you. So that's a really important right. They're recruiting, the getting the right people on team, but I mean, so we kind of have that down, but then, like don't we have to have some like goals and to otherwise for freelancers? right now We just got a bunch of people that want to be on the first support team and you know.

Speaker 3: 22:43

And then what? Well, and this, what we're talking about is this foundation is setting a foundation for success, and I've seen this time and time and time again. I mean, i've lost count of how many departments I've seen this at. You go get training and then you come back and then what? to your point, right, and it's because they don't spend the time to create the policies, to create the mission, like their unique mission for their agency, because not every peer support team is going to be created equal with the goals that they have. So your mission and your goals, and then continue to work on an SOP or a standard operating procedure. Right, and that's something that's a living document I have. You know, it changes all the time, but the policies are so critical because it's what tells command right, what, what you're going to be part of as a peer support team, and it allows them to be part of what is being created. You know, and if admin's already signed off on it, then you can go forward.

Jerry D Lund: 23:41

And don't let the policies be like overwhelming, right. I mean, we could get so down in the weeds and then the team never starts right. We see that a lot, that it's just like so overwhelming and taxing to get a team started, but it's just excellent, It's not that hard, it can be easy, right. There's just some basic steps that you have to have And there's kind of a formula for that, like there's a template for that, and I think some people are like well, how many people do we need on peer support team?

Speaker 3: 24:11

Yeah, i get that question a lot And there is no magic number because it depends on your agencies, how big they are, the site, you know, like what kind of situations they deal with all the time. Role versus urban right There's a lot of variations. Yeah, i came up with some kind of formulas because everybody was like I need a number. You know, we came up with some ideas but it's still. It's still difficult if you don't have these foundational pieces, these policies and these goals and even, like I said, the mission. You know what, as a peer support team, do you guys want to work towards? this is a big, this is a big divide. You've got wellness, which can incorporate physical health, and peer support, which typically involves like proactive approaches to mental health and connection right And resources, and so not every agency wants to include physical health. I mean, let's say you only have five peer supporters, well, they're not going to be able to help track all the physical training and things like that, you know. And so some teams say we're not going to touch the physical health, we'll let insurance companies or cities or whatever do that kind of thing. But we are more than happy to do some of the proactive things on the on the mental health side, you know provide classes, you know by professionals or people that we know are experts, and you know subject matter experts to come in and talk about finances. You know things like that. That's, that's a need in first responder land.

Jerry D Lund: 25:42

Yeah, i totally, totally agree with you And I know a lot of teams, you know when they're developing, struggle with a lot of this stuff, and so this is kind of why we came up with a complete first responder wellness trainings is because we know this is a very big sticking point for a lot of people is finding that structure, looking on how to do that or looking for grants and different things, But that's something that we're very passionate about doing.

Speaker 2: 26:07

Yeah, anytime you're trying to start something new can seem overwhelming, it can seem difficult and you don't, you may not know where to turn to, and so kind of in the true peer support model. sometimes it's beneficial to reach out for help and talk to people who've done it before, who know what they're doing.

Speaker 3: 26:26

I saw this in an agency. Sometimes they'll call us a. Hey, can you just look at our policy? And I'll say, okay, do you want the honest, like you know, professor, version of this breakdown, or do you want just like the nicer, kinder version? And they're like no, be honest. And then you know, I see them like crying because we've ripped apart their policy. But but the point is is it's not hard, but don't be afraid to ask for help, because when you're relying on templated policies from agencies that it's not their specialty, then you lose pieces that are critical for your success as a peer support. For example, there are policies out there that you can access And they'll make mention that things are not confidential. Well, if you're in a state, for example in the United States, that has confidential privilege under certain circumstances, then that shouldn't be in your policy. So if you just copied that, then you're contradicting your own state's laws, right? So don't be afraid to ask for help.

Jerry D Lund: 27:27

Kind of goes right along with the peer support model right.

Speaker 2: 27:30

You're not alone.

Jerry D Lund: 27:31

This is not the first time that somebody's done this Like right. So you know, just just reach out. I mean, we're here to help. We're here to help with any questions. We have a lot of diverse experience on our team And we're happy to do whatever it is to help. You know, and the other thing, i think that's part of like kind of networking right And then working and building those relationships is huge, not just in your peer support team right And the structure of it. Once again, if you're building that, networking those relationships, it's much easier to get your team started.

Speaker 3: 28:02

Well, and they're good supports for you. The reality is, if something happens some critical incident right, we're reactive, right. So now we're reacting. Some you know officer involved shooting or some really bad accident with you know fire and medics right, then we. It affects all of us. It doesn't matter how big your agency is. These are our people And so we need the support. So it's really important to network for both resources, right, but also so that emotional support for us as an agency. That's a failure point in a lot, of, a lot of departments.

Speaker 2: 28:35

In a lot of ways. when we support other agencies and support other peer support programs, we're really helping ourselves in that sense.

Speaker 3: 28:43

Yeah, definitely, Well, and I think I just want to touch on one other thing is making sure that the peer support team has the training that they need. Yeah, that's like this is a big issue. I think it's a I don't know, maybe it's a culture thing. You guys can probably speak to that better than I can. But you go and you get your one certification and then you re-up it every two years maybe, or whatever. The requirement is right. But in peer support world, because it is so young real, i mean like legally it's young there's no requirements that way. And so, like our state, the state I'm in, we they just get one training, that's it, and so then some departments don't think that they ever need anything else. But that's, that's inaccurate, because it gets inaccurate because, again, you're supposed to be there and know a little bit more about mental health. Plus, who absorbs everything from one training one day? right?

Jerry D Lund: 29:32

Yeah, and that goes back into your policies and goals and you know, like, how often are you going to require training and what types of training are you going to require.

Speaker 2: 29:41

Additionally, it's like any other skill that we train in our first responder careers. They're all perishable skills And if we're not maintaining our proficiency and enhancing that proficiency, growing our skill level, we lose it. And so it's. It's not good enough just to get that one training, that, the piece of paper, the certificate, and call it good, because we need to be able to use these, these skills, at a moment's notice.

Speaker 4: 30:08

Thanks again for listening. Don't forget to rate and review the show wherever you access your podcast. If you know someone that would be great on the show, please get ahold of our host, jerry Dean Lund, through the Instagram handles at Jerry fire and fuel or at enduring the badge podcast, also by visiting the show's website, enduring the badge podcastcom, for additional methods of contact and up to date information regarding the show. Remember, the video is for members. The views and opinions expressed during the show solely represent those of our hosts and the current episode's guests.