Leading with Heart: Katherine Boyle on Family Dynamics and First Responder Support

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Welcome to today's episode of Enduring the Badge podcast.

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I'm your host, jerry Dean Lund, and if you haven't already done so, please take out your phone and hit that subscribe button.

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I don't want you to miss an upcoming episode.

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On whichever platform you listen to this podcast on, such as iTunes, apple Podcasts and Spotify, it helps this podcast grow and the reason why, when this gets positive ratings and reviews, those platforms like Apple Podcasts and Spotify show this to other people that never listened to this podcast before, and that allows our podcast to grow and make more of an impact in other people's lives.

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So if you would do that, I would appreciate that from the bottom of my heart.

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My very special guest today is Catherine Boyle.

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How you doing, catherine?

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I'm good Thanks.

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How are you?

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I'm doing great.

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Thank you so much for being on today.

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We're going to kind of take a little bit of a different angle than I normally take on the podcast.

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I'm excited.

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Yeah, I'm really excited to chat with you.

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But that's kind of sad that I take this little bit different twist to it, because what we're talking about today is kind of being left out right, yeah, exactly, and that's why I'm doing what I'm doing, because I don't.

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I'm alone in this space, so I'm honored to kind of have the opportunity to be speaking up.

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Awesome, Catherine.

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You know, tell the audience a little bit about yourself.

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Yeah, absolutely so.

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My name is Catherine and I grew up in Philadelphia.

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I was the daughter of Special Victims Unit Lieutenant, also in Philadelphia, and then all of my uncles and many of my male cousins also became Philadelphia police officers because they followed in their father's footsteps.

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I personally moved to New York for college.

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I lived there for 12 years where I worked in the fashion industry, and while I was there I kind of began to realize the connection that I had to law enforcement, how I felt when I would see the NYPD officers, how I wanted to support them and let them know that I was supportive of them and what they did for our communities and I would.

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I found myself Googling how can I support law enforcement?

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And a lot of times the results would be like donate to this nonprofit, here's this nonprofit, and I love that.

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That's all wonderful, but from my perspective, I really wanted them to know that there are civilians out there who love them and genuinely appreciate what they do.

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I wanted to be in it with them, boots on the ground and just really there for them in any way I could be, and so Googling was not getting me anywhere, although it did find me the New York City Police Department Citizens Academy, which was a really cool experience, but, yeah, that got me nowhere.

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It kind of took a backseat and then fast forward a little bit.

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2020 happened.

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Obviously, the riots were very much in my face.

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I had people that I once loved and called friends participating in the riots and questioning me and my ethics and my morals and how I could support police and things of that nature, and it was a wild ride, to say the least, from my perspective, just because when I'm on my social media and talking to these people, all I could think of was, like that's someone's mother or father, like how do you not register that information?

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And so at the time, I was having a lot of trouble sleeping at night because it was just on my mind all the time, and you know, they say that's when the best ideas come to you.

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And so one night I just had this kind of light bulb moment where I needed to like figure it out, I needed to do something, and so my initial thought was like an online community, because I personally kind of have benefited from, you know, the Facebook groups of the world.

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There was like a world in which that could work for cops, cause obviously I understand.

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You know there's nuances and what these conversations kind of kept coming back to was my introduction and how I talked about my dad and my relationship with my dad.

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And I would be having these these conversations and the police officer or retired cop or whoever it was would be like, wow, my kid doesn't would not talk about me the way you're talking about your dad, or I don't have that kind of relationship with my kids.

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And I'm having these calls and the and the person on the other side was having these like revelations right in front of me and I was.

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I was like I never registered that this was a thing and that this was happening and this is happening right in front of me.

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And so, after many of those conversations and many years of just kind of thinking about it, I decided that this is kind of where we need to kind of start talking about things, because we're talking more and more about mental health, which is incredible and I love that but I think this is a world, an area, where the information is lacking and the conversation is lacking, like how is your job and the outlets that you're developing affecting your children?

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Yeah, I I've been teaching or have taught like mental health classes, you know, to first responders, peer support classes and and things like that, and very rarely is there something that I come across it's driven for kids right Of a first responder, like programs or like information.

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There's just not a lot out there and I think we don't understand how the job impacts them and we know it impacts our spouses or significant others, but we don't really understand the impact on the kids.

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Yeah, exactly, and that's why these people were having that revelation, like it took talking to the adult child of a police officer for them to kind of recognize it.

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And, and the thing is, it makes sense if you think about it, because your spouse can like smack you across the face and be like, stop taking on so much overtime, like what's wrong with you.

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And you know, they can communicate, even if it's not necessarily effective communication.

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They can voice their experience.

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But the child doesn't necessarily have the vocabulary, they don't necessarily have the awareness that something is wrong or that whatever is wrong might be stemming from mom or dad's job or mom or dad's schedule or whatever.

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That is so just kind of bringing that awareness and that as the adult you might have to open up some of those conversations with your children.

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Yeah, I think that's really important to sit down with them and try to maybe answer some of their questions that they have in a non-confrontational way, right In the right setting.

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Yeah, exactly.

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What other like?

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What was the common theme, like the underlying theme, did they just not?

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Think about my parents well, just the underlying thing that you come across with the officers that you're talking to.

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Oh, yeah, yeah, it was something that they had just never thought about and and for some of them they had adult kids and they were like, oh wow, now things are making sense.

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I don't have a relationship with my kid.

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Maybe this is why, or we went through this really rough patch and we figured it out, but this is where it stemmed from, and so there was just a lot of retrospective or introspective, like revelations happening.

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Some of them, it was like some of them had younger kids and they were like I want my kid to grow up and have your story and have your experience and be able to say and feel the things that you're saying and feeling.

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So it really did like kind of run the gambit.

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And then there were also some people who were like, oh yeah, now I have an open dialogue with my adult child and we talk about these things that he or she struggled with and, wow, as their parent, I wish I could have done something back then.

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And so, again, I think, just bringing the awareness and starting those conversations younger, or even if they're not conversations because I feel like that can sort of feel a little like sticky or nerve wracking or even like unnecessary but just being there being present, making the most of whatever time you do have with the child or the children and just like building it into your everyday life, because my parents didn't necessarily have like sit down, down and out conversations with us, but we still had, you know, a really great upbringing and family unit and again here I am sort of trying to share that.

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Yeah, what.

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What did your family unit look like?

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Yeah, so my parents and then I have an older sister and a younger brother and we are all very different, but growing up it was just one thing that I sort of talk about and I give credit to my parents for is that they normalized everything about our life, so like whatever happened in Sally Smith's house didn't really matter, because that's just not how our family operated and it wasn't like a big topic of discussion, it was just like this is how we do things, that's how she does things, and so they really normalized some of the nuances in the police realm and I think that that helped a lot Because, again, we felt like home was very, very safe.

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It was where we could be safe, it was where a lot of our friends can be safe, and that just kind of perpetuated itself.

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Obviously, we had our teen years and our struggling years, but in general home was always safe.

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And then, even to this day, we're all very close and we all get together for dinners or gatherings or what have you at my parents' house, and it's just like a little mini reunion every month.

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That's awesome.

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That's awesome.

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Yeah, it's really nice.

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I'm just trying to think, you know, I have three, three daughters and uh, all different as well, you know, and all different perspectives, um, on my career and what they saw and and things like that.

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You know, kind of going back to what you said, you know they're like the overtime, shifts and stuff like that.

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They would always be like dad, you work so hard, you know, and they and they still say that today, today, like you're such a hard worker and everything, and I'm like kind of feels like makes me like I wasn't present, which I probably wasn't.

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Have you ever asked them.

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I'm just curious, um, not straight up like that, actually not, because I kind of get that vibe from some of the stories and stuff that they they say and things that they say, but I have never straight up asked them yeah because I do.

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You think it's hard for as a first responder, like parent, do you?

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I think it can be for sure.

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I think there's.

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You know, there's a lot of things that can lead to that, whether it's the trauma that they see on the job, whether it's the peer pressure which I think is a big thing that can kind of happen on the on, like behind the doors, on the back end, like come out drinking after your shift, hang out with the guys or whatever it is.

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After your shift, hang out with the guys or whatever it is, and then you know what you're seeing.

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If you don't either know how to compartmentalize or have some sort of routine that you can do, it's like you just go home and you're smacked in the face with, like a bunch of kids who just want to like hang out and play and scream in your space.

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Um, so I definitely think it's.

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It's not easy by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think it's worth it because it's it's your future and it's your kids' futures and it really does determine the trajectory of your relationship with them and their relationships going forward them?

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Yeah, definitely.

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And their relationships going forward.

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Oh, yeah, true, Very true.

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I know transitions were very hard for me.

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Transition to work or to come home were difficult.

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So I had to like figure out how to navigate those because, yeah, those transitions I mean for me before shift, I would get a little more amped up, a little more uptight, a little, you know, more focused on work, less focused on home.

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And then coming home, that transition was difficult for me.

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If I came home and the house was up and everybody was just going crazy to me, you know, and I was like I can't do this, I like I need some like calmness before I interject myself into the family.

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So, trying to master those, those transitions were were difficult but they were worth it.

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As I got better at it, I really wish I could have implemented a lot more of that earlier on in my career.

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And the thing is, you don't know what you don't know, so that's not something that you're taught at the academy.

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And if you're joining the academy at 21, 22 years old.

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That's not something you're going to think about.

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You probably don't have kids.

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You probably don't have a spouse or a partner You're 22.

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The world is your oyster, you're 23.

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You don't think about the idea that there's going to be compounding trauma that's going to impact you and then there's going to be just the sheer overstimulation, because if you walk in the door and kids are jumping up at you and all these things, so it's not something you think about, it's not something that the academy brings up.

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It might be something that you have someone in leadership bring up down the road, but you're not prepared for it and, again, you don't know what you don't know.

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And so that's why I think these conversations and what you're doing and what more people in this space are doing is so important, because that transition period, especially if you have kids, important, because that transition period, especially if you have kids, is imperative and until it's brought to your attention and you accept that it's a thing and that it's something that you need to establish and whatever it looks like.

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For my dad it was kind of built in because he had a very long-ish drive home and I think that that was kind of built in for him.

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But whatever it looks like, whether it's your long drive listening to a podcast, listening to your favorite song, going for a drive around the block a few times before you actually walk into the house If you have a partner, maybe the partner takes the kids out of the house for a few minutes, maybe you go to the gym before you go home.

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Whatever it's going to look like, it's really important to establish something, even if it's only like you can fit a few minutes in.

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You need to do something.

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We're human beings and you can't be expected to go from what you're seeing on the job and what you're experiencing on the job to like mommy, daddy mode, like that.

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Yeah, no, very true.

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There's lots of stories that kind of caught my attention.

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You know the officers or first responders go through this horrible incident and then you know, come home and they have to make this transition after, like you know, this horrible incident could then you know an officer involved shooting and then come home to be this loving, loving parent is really difficult, or I don't know.

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Sometimes like, depending on the situation, may not even be possible to like come home and have a good interaction.

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I feel like Exactly, and that's going back to like how this kind of started during the riots.

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I was like how is this person that I'm looking at on my phone who people are throwing things at him, people are throwing fake blood at him, like how is he supposed to go home and feed his children or wake them up for school tomorrow?

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Like he's literally supposed to make that transition and that's I don't think that's humanly possible.

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And so you know that's again how it started was like this kind of mindset.

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You know that's again how it started was like this kind of mindset, mental health, taking care of yourself concept.

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And then, you know it, it does trickle down to your kids because there's no way that that can happen to you and it can't.

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It doesn't impact your kid because you're going to have to take that home with you in some way.

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Yeah, yeah, definitely.

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And then the last place you want to take things out is at home, because, uh, right, but if you're not happy at home, I feel like it's can be challenging, very challenging, to be happy at work and vice versa.

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Right, it's once again, it's those, those things that just stay with you to occupy your mind instead of being present.

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I think is one way to put it.

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Yeah, and the more synchronistic and like at peace and settled and just normalized things are at home, the less you have to think about outside of your job.

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You can go and just be present at work because you don't have to worry about.

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You know what your kids are struggling with or what your wife said this morning, or you know whatever nonsense is happening at home.

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You don't have to worry about it because home is good.

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You're taking care of it, even if it's not perfect.

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You're doing your due diligence as a family to do the best you can and make the best of everything you have, and then you can show up 100% at work.

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Yeah, and 100% at home, right.

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Right, exactly.

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As much as possible depending.

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I know because people work for these smaller departments, and then they're like there's no day that I don't interact with work, you know, type of thing, which is really unfortunate, because I think it doesn't help an officer or whoever downregulate themselves, right, they're still on that edge because my phone's going off or I'm getting emails or text messages and stuff like that, and so I think it just always heightens you up where at home you want to be like the most downregulated possible, right, it's supposed to be your safest place.

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Yeah, exactly Exactly, and it can be hard, especially for, like you said, some of the smaller departments.

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They're less staffed, they're understaffed, they've got a lot of mandatory overtime and things like that, and so that's where the concept of doing the best you can kind of comes into play.

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And sometimes I talk about it, but my family was Philadelphia police, so I don't have a ton of personal experience with some of those smaller departments, but I do think that in some instances some instances, not all of them, it is honestly it does come down to a matter of boundaries and putting up your own boundaries and putting your foot down when you need to, like.

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You know, hey chief, hey Sarge, hey, whoever, my kid's sick or you know this is going on at home and this is really what matters right now because it's my child.

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You know this is going on at home and this is really what matters right now because it's my child, you know.

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And hopefully you would get some understanding back.

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And I'm like I'm torn because I'm like I think of some people like yeah, I don't really care about your boundaries.

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You know you're still an employee here and I need you, and you know yeah.

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And.

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I think that that's also just like part of this bigger conversation that we're starting to have more of.

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And again, the mental health piece and and getting leadership in on things, because that's, you know, it's really hard, especially for those smaller departments, it's really hard to execute on some of these mental health topics that we talk about if leadership is kind of on their own world, in their own world, on their own planet, whatever it is, you know, we really need to continue to just talk about it and and get leadership on board.

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And that's one thing that I think was also unique about my dad, because he was a Lieutenant, so he was a leader and he had this perspective.

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He had this family first perspective and he would actually like hold presentations for the younger cops to explain to them like this is a job, this is what you need to be really great at when you're at work, and then this is also really important If you have a family, go home and be with your family, and so, again, just leaders need to get on the ball and kind of work with their guys and gals, because leading with an iron fist is not going to get anyone anywhere and it's only going to perpetuate all of the problems that people like you and I in this space talk about yeah, I always have these, like you know, as a guest, like talks and stuff like that.

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I always have these things like visions and memories of things that have like happened and gone on in the past, and then I'm like, uh, that's so many great learning lessons from them.

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They're talking about leadership.

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Yeah, they do have to be on board, but most of them that I've seen they say they're on board but aren't really going through the actions of being on board.

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And part of that is, if you're having your officers take mental health classes, why aren't you?

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Because you're not exempt from it.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And I think that that actually, now that you say that that's almost another, just like I don't want to say problem, but it's like another concept.

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It's almost like they're saying I don't, I don't remember what that old adage is, but like for you, not for me, like it might be a problem for you, but, but I'm, I'm chilling, I'm good, but again, that's perpetuating the problem.

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If, if you're, you know, not acknowledging that you know you might also need to focus on things outside of work, again, it's just a matter of perpetuating the problem.

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And I think everyone kind of needs to do a little bit more introspection and take a look at their life and their boundaries and their values and, um, it's, it's definitely you know, again, everything I'm doing, everything people in this mental health for first responders space is doing, it's, it's all adding up, but it's all part of something a lot bigger.

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Like this is.

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This is a bit of a um, I don't want to say a monster, but it's like a big it's a big monster, you know it's going to take a lot.

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It's things have been the way they've been for a really long time.

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Um, but I I think that you know we can only go on like that for so long, and things need to start to change, especially as the world changes.

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Yeah, I think.

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I mean, it's just straight up.

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Your family needs to be incorporated to some of these trainings that happen.

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You know, like spouses and stuff like that.

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You get in front of some of these these trainings to understand what the officers are going through and how they can help them and how they can make the family unit better and how you know to interact with the kids could be better if we did these different things.

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Yeah.

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What?

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What do you suggest?

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I know you talk about a lot of open communication and stuff like that, but what do you suggest?

00:24:16.488 --> 00:24:22.040
I know you talk about a lot of open communication and stuff like that, but what do you suggest for somebody that may be listening and be like, okay, this is kind of hidden, true to me.

00:24:22.040 --> 00:24:26.087
What action steps should I take next?

00:24:27.451 --> 00:24:32.145
I think starting to be intentional with your time can go a really long way.

00:24:32.145 --> 00:25:08.173
I actually just talked about this on my page the other day, but when my there was a season where my dad was like going through some sort of transition and he was put on nights again when we were like when I was like 10 to 12 ish and he was put on nights again, and that was very foreign to us, we were kind of confused by it and what he did was when he would come home from his night shift, he would wake us up for school so that he could see us, he could be there when we woke up, he could spend a little bit of time with us and then he would go to bed and then my mom would take over.

00:25:08.173 --> 00:25:14.727
And I think that's just something so small that he probably didn't really think about outside of.

00:25:14.727 --> 00:25:15.728
I want to see my kids.

00:25:15.728 --> 00:25:30.624
And we definitely never thought about I only just thought about it, like the other day, um, cause he was just being dad, he was doing his job of waking us up, um, but those little things really do make an impact.

00:25:30.663 --> 00:25:38.130
I mean, it's something that I remember to this day, um, and I again, I think, just like making the most of your time.

00:25:38.130 --> 00:25:43.011
So again, he squeezed that in right before he went to bed, after coming home from his shift.

00:25:43.011 --> 00:25:56.294
Maybe it's like going for a drive with one of your kids, or taking them out for ice cream before a shift or after a shift, or on your day off, or making your days off a little extra special.

00:25:56.294 --> 00:26:02.830
And I think one thing I want to mention especially present day.

00:26:02.830 --> 00:26:28.569
This was not an issue when I was growing up, but when you are home, putting your phone down and yes, maybe you have to like take a work call here and there, but like not playing the games or being on the social media or, you know, not like farting around on your phone work is one thing, but just being distracted by your phone is a whole nother thing in this social media world.

00:26:28.569 --> 00:26:31.083
That that I'm sure we could talk about for a long time, um, but.

00:26:31.103 --> 00:26:53.096
but I think that just being more present if you don't want to have the conversations or maybe you're not ready to have the conversations that just being more present if you don't want to have the conversations or maybe you're not ready to have the conversations, just being more present and making it very, very clear to your children that you are present and that you do love them, will go a really long way yeah, I think being present is is huge because you're saying that you could.

00:26:53.116 --> 00:26:55.767
Yeah, right, I don't really want to deal with these problems at home.

00:26:55.767 --> 00:27:03.388
I'm just going to numb myself by scrolling, you know, through social media and they're like, oh whoa, where did time go?

00:27:03.388 --> 00:27:11.387
And I could have actually done something meaningful or worthwhile with one of my kids or my spouse, or something like that.

00:27:11.387 --> 00:27:23.710
I think it also comes down to being planned, right, not just going to oh, I'm going to try to do this, I'm going, I'm thinking about doing this, like, if you don't plan it, it's probably not going to happen.

00:27:24.511 --> 00:27:33.834
Exactly, yeah, and even if it's not like very specific plans, what I say sometimes it's just like the intentionality of whatever it is Okay.

00:27:33.834 --> 00:27:39.382
The intentionality of whatever it is Okay.

00:27:39.382 --> 00:27:50.285
This is my day off, this is what I'm going to do on my day off, and maybe that's spend from three to four with Sally, and from four to five I'm going to help my wife or husband make dinner.

00:27:50.285 --> 00:27:57.980
Like it doesn't have to be super specific, where it's like all right, we've got tickets to the zoo at 1 pm and if you get called into work we're screwed.

00:27:57.980 --> 00:28:13.336
Like it doesn't need to be that specific, but making sure that you are laying the groundwork and laying the foundation for what your intent is to do with the free time that you have with your loved ones.

00:28:14.839 --> 00:28:17.349
Yes, especially in right.

00:28:17.349 --> 00:28:24.930
I feel like this is world is getting busier and busier, more things come and rob you of your of your time.

00:28:24.930 --> 00:28:30.326
So, yeah, like that, just like it doesn't have to be locked down.

00:28:30.326 --> 00:28:56.253
I mean, sure, some things you know vacations and things like that, you know lockdown, but you know, getting the opportunity to spend time with your kids or help your spouse or whatever, like that can be almost done like anytime, long as the intention is there to to help them or do something for them or recognize them or be present with them, like I think think we underestimate how smart kids are.

00:28:56.654 --> 00:29:00.228
Yes, and how much they like absorb yes.

00:29:00.469 --> 00:29:05.291
Yeah, you don't think they're listening or watching, but they are definitely listening and watching.

00:29:05.291 --> 00:29:06.082
Just watch them.

00:29:06.082 --> 00:29:07.085
Mimic you some way.

00:29:07.866 --> 00:29:12.931
Yeah, that's such a good point People always talk about like how their kids start to do like what they do.

00:29:12.931 --> 00:29:18.003
My best friend's son will like pretend he's drinking coffee because she drinks coffee.

00:29:18.003 --> 00:29:22.113
So yeah, if you just think about they're like little sponges.

00:29:22.113 --> 00:29:35.865
So even if it doesn't register to you, or if something doesn't register to the way you would register it as an adult, doesn't mean that their little brain isn't registering it in some other way, doesn't?

00:29:35.885 --> 00:29:38.387
mean that their little brain isn't registering it in some other way?

00:29:38.387 --> 00:29:39.028
Yeah, yeah, definitely, catherine.

00:29:39.028 --> 00:29:39.730
So you have this.

00:29:39.730 --> 00:29:42.071
You're a podcaster as well.

00:29:42.071 --> 00:29:43.874
You have, you have a page.

00:29:43.874 --> 00:29:46.016
Let's talk a little bit about yourself.

00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:05.633
Yeah, I have a podcast it's called Beyond the Uniform, with the LT's daughter, and I interview active and retired police officers as well as adult children of police officers.

00:30:05.633 --> 00:30:11.169
It's a little bit harder to find them and get them on the show, but I have been, you know, trying to get more of them to get different perspectives.

00:30:11.169 --> 00:30:16.464
You know I have my perspective but I like to hear others and share other stories.

00:30:16.464 --> 00:30:18.846
So that's kind of who I interview.

00:30:18.846 --> 00:30:25.534
I love the opportunity to give these people a platform to share their stories and their experiences.

00:30:25.534 --> 00:30:27.717
I think it's really cool and really powerful.

00:30:27.717 --> 00:30:42.894
Instagram is the LTS daughter, where I kind of share some of my experiences and the lessons and the things I've learned along the way and along this journey.

00:30:42.914 --> 00:30:49.616
Um, and I I also through my company beyond the uniform, I host events mostly in person in the Philadelphia area.

00:30:49.616 --> 00:30:51.721
I don't have any lined up right now.

00:30:51.721 --> 00:30:54.748
I'm hoping to have a pretty big one in November.

00:30:54.748 --> 00:31:10.482
Um, but yeah, I host events for law enforcement and they're typically and their spouses, because if the officer is going to, you know better themselves and better their knowledge, but their spouse is not on board, it's it's just not going to work.

00:31:10.482 --> 00:31:23.865
Um, so for the officer and their spouse and, um, and yeah, I'm, I'm working on something else behind the scenes, but it's it's not done quite yet, so I can't give too much information about that.

00:31:23.865 --> 00:31:24.767
But stay tuned.

00:31:25.186 --> 00:31:26.189
That sounds exciting.

00:31:26.891 --> 00:31:28.354
Yeah, yeah, I'm very excited.

00:31:29.221 --> 00:31:36.268
You know the the part about, uh, interviewing your, your adult child like adult children of police officers and stuff like that.

00:31:36.268 --> 00:31:47.672
I had my daughter on my podcast years back but sadly the audio didn't record Only this little tiny little few-minute section recorded and stuff.

00:31:47.672 --> 00:31:49.886
So it's super sad about that.

00:31:49.886 --> 00:31:54.824
But getting her on the other side and doing the podcast, she told me things that she had never told me before.

00:31:54.824 --> 00:31:59.587
Getting her on the other side, you know, and doing the podcast, she told me things that she had never told me before.

00:32:00.729 --> 00:32:01.069
Wow.

00:32:02.210 --> 00:32:05.973
And they weren't super great things I wanted to hear, to be honest.

00:32:06.835 --> 00:32:09.257
Oh yeah, I was going to ask what was that like for you?

00:32:13.180 --> 00:32:13.480
It was hard.

00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:14.761
I mean, I was just like, hey, just say what you have to say.

00:32:14.761 --> 00:32:28.848
I know sometimes our relationship's a little strained and her perception of maybe what happened during her childhood and my perception are, you know, two different things, but it was a little rough.

00:32:28.848 --> 00:32:32.566
I think it might have been a little therapeutic for both of us.

00:32:32.566 --> 00:32:45.663
But, um, the interesting part, years ago she didn't want to have anything to do with being a first responder or anything like that, and now she finds herself kind of following in my footsteps a little bit.

00:32:45.663 --> 00:32:56.736
So she's, she's working, uh, for an agency as a intermediate or advanced emt, so on an ambulance wow, that's quite a 180.

00:32:56.976 --> 00:32:58.019
Good for her, that's awesome.

00:32:58.400 --> 00:32:59.122
Yeah, yeah.

00:32:59.122 --> 00:33:01.046
So I think it'd be fascinating.

00:33:01.046 --> 00:33:20.534
So I would encourage people to listen to Catherine's podcast because maybe it'll pick up some things that you can use to better you know your family, and the better your family unit is, I think the less stress you'll have, and the less stress you have probably is going to lead less impact on your mental health.

00:33:21.494 --> 00:33:32.913
Yes, and it'll also serve you into retirement or into whenever you leave the job, because the relationships that you put the work into will still be there once the job is not.

00:33:34.536 --> 00:33:36.165
Right, because the job doesn't last forever.

00:33:37.162 --> 00:33:40.645
It does not Public service announcement Right.

00:33:43.681 --> 00:33:45.386
Nor should you try to make it last forever.

00:33:45.487 --> 00:33:46.410
Yeah, no, please don't.

00:33:49.141 --> 00:33:51.348
Catherine, it was awesome to have you on.

00:33:51.348 --> 00:33:54.582
Is there something that we didn't cover that you think maybe the audience needs to know to have you on?

00:33:54.582 --> 00:33:55.683
Is there something that we didn't?

00:33:55.703 --> 00:33:56.766
cover that you think maybe the audience needs to know.

00:33:56.766 --> 00:34:03.221
I will say there is an episode of my podcast with the guest's name is Dr Erin Craw.

00:34:03.221 --> 00:34:05.387
She is incredible.

00:34:05.387 --> 00:34:10.480
She's also the daughter of a police officer, but she has a very different story.

00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:16.884
Her dad, she was a total daddy's girl, loved her dad with everything ineller.

00:34:17.625 --> 00:35:00.822
But it's just a really great um, just an eyeopening interview, I think, because one thing that I've noticed is people will say and this isn't just first responders but people will say I'm not drinking a bottle a day, I'm not falling asleep blackout every night, I'm not doing X, y and Z.

00:35:00.822 --> 00:35:03.646
Joe Schmo is doing X, y and Z, so I'm fine.

00:35:03.646 --> 00:35:07.815
But that's not the only tell.

00:35:07.815 --> 00:35:18.646
There are other things that could be going on or other things that your little sponges could be picking up on, even if it's not black and white in your face.

00:35:18.646 --> 00:35:23.148
So I would highly recommend if anyone of retiring and she was 20.

00:35:23.148 --> 00:35:43.773
And that's it's kind of a heartbreaking story and again, she talks more about it in the podcast.

00:35:43.773 --> 00:35:50.293
But I think there are a lot, of, a lot of lessons that can be taken from from her experience.

00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:55.503
Yeah, that sounds like a would be a powerful episode to listen to.

00:35:55.503 --> 00:36:23.873
The thought I had when you say you know Joe Schmo is doing this and you know you're doing this and so's like someone can eat terribly and they can look skinny all the time and someone eats, you know, healthy and they may still be overweight.

00:36:23.873 --> 00:36:28.331
Like what you're doing affects you differently than what somebody else is doing.

00:36:28.331 --> 00:36:32.786
You can't do the same, necessarily the same things, and maybe you have to put your own little tweak on them.

00:36:33.347 --> 00:36:35.159
Yeah, yeah, I think that's a really great example.

00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:38.289
Actually, it's so easy to justify things.

00:36:38.690 --> 00:36:38.831
Yeah.

00:36:38.831 --> 00:36:43.608
So, yeah, definitely Well, catherine, it's been a pleasure having you on.

00:36:43.608 --> 00:36:44.864
I really appreciate it.

00:36:45.425 --> 00:36:46.610
Thank you, this was an honor.

00:36:46.610 --> 00:36:48.141
I really appreciate having me on.

00:36:48.521 --> 00:36:49.282
Yeah, thank you.

00:36:49.282 --> 00:36:52.827
We'll have to have you back on when your super secret thing is done.

00:36:52.847 --> 00:36:54.009
Yes, I would love that.

00:36:54.009 --> 00:36:55.451
I will definitely be in touch.

00:36:55.451 --> 00:36:59.195
I'm very, very excited so okay, me too, thank you.

00:37:01.623 --> 00:37:01.744
Thanks.

00:37:01.744 --> 00:37:03.690
Thanks again for listening.

00:37:03.690 --> 00:37:09.259
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00:37:09.259 --> 00:37:15.213
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00:37:15.213 --> 00:37:16.016
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00:37:16.016 --> 00:37:35.724
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00:37:35.724 --> 00:37:45.452
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