I am Stopping The Threat & The Stigma - Adam Meyers

[00:00:00] Jerry: Hi everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of Enduring the Badge Podcast. I'm your host Jerry Dean Lund, and I don't want you to miss an upcoming episode, so please hit that subscribe button. And while your phone's out, please do me a favor and give us a review on iTunes or our Apple Podcast. It says, Hey, this podcast has a great message and we should send it out to more people. So please take that 30 seconds to a minute to do that review and just maybe by doing that, it'll push this up into someone's podcast feed that really needs this message. 

[00:00:30] Jerry: Hey everyone. I'm super excited to announce that I have teamed up with one of the leaders in mental health for first responders, and that is Dr. Tia White. Together we have created an incredible company called The Complete First Responder Wellness Trainings, and that is an exhaustive list of trainings to help first responders on and off duty to deal with not only just their mental health and their health, but we are talking about finances and family and kids.

[00:01:02] Jerry: We have an exhaustive list of trainings that we can help you become the best person you can be, and those trainings can be delivered to your department as well. So feel free to contact us at the complete first responder Wellness Trainings on Instagram or Facebook or the complete first responder trainings on the internet.

[00:01:26] Jerry: My very special guest today is Adam Meyers. He has a very powerful story that he's going to be very transparent about. Adam was a law enforcement officer for 21 years in the state of Wisconsin where he was involved in an officer involved shooting that he was cleared from, but Adam went through hell in his personal life after that, he had terrible coping mechanisms that made him spiral down deeply into a severe, dark place in his mental health, even to the point where he would unload his weapon and put it to his head and draw the trigger back just to hear the noise of the pin striking. 

[00:02:14] Jerry: So Adam has some great props to tell his story. He's not gonna leave anything out. You're gonna want to hear it because he is a resilient man that has created a great page called Stop the Threat - Stop the stigma.org and we're gonna talk about that as well. But Adam is a mental health warrior and he has come back around to a great place where he is at today and we're gonna dive right into his story.

[00:02:43] Jerry: Here's my very special guest, Adam Meyers.

[00:02:50] Jerry: How you doing Adam? 

[00:02:51] Adam: Good, Jerry, thanks for having me. I really appreciate your support and I appreciate you giving me this opportunity to, uh, speak about mental health. 

[00:02:59] Jerry: Yeah. I really appreciate too. I know we had some conversation before we even jumped on and started recording this, that, um, that you were an open book and then we're gonna dive down into your story and you have some props that you're gonna use during your, your story and stuff like that, and you wanted to be transparent about that they were not going to be real.

[00:03:20] Adam: Absolutely. I'm, I'm very, uh, I would say probably brutally transparent with my, uh, critical incident and, um, My poor coping skills afterwards, my mental health challenges, both personal and professional, and I, I just wanna get the word out there to in hopes that it'll help somebody if they're going through the same thing or if they may know somebody that is so, um, they can get the right kinda support.

[00:03:46] Jerry: Yeah. Adam, just can you tell the audience a little bit about yourself? 

[00:03:52] Adam: Oh, my name's Adam Meyers. I was born and raised in Racine, Wisconsin. Um, I was a police officer for 21 years, started my career with the city of Racine my hometown in all my life. I always wanted to be a police officer. As far back as I can remember, my parents told me a story that, you know, I lived on Washington Avenue, which is Highway 20, one of the main thoroughfares, and in out of the.

[00:04:16] Adam: And every time I would hear a siren go by the house, I'd run to the window, take a peek outside, I'd see a police car and I would call it in "Er" car. Cause of the siren, you know, the, errr noise. Yeah. So that had excited me every time. And my parents told me the first time I saw a police officer get outta the car, I told them, when I grow up, I wanna be an "Er" car man.

[00:04:33] Adam: So all my life, I, I took significant steps and the right kinda steps I thought, um, that would help me become a police officer or, or a car man. And, uh, I was lucky enough to become a, a police officer with the City of Racine in 2001 and, uh, my career ended in May of 22 after 21 years of being a police officer in Wisconsin.

[00:04:57] Jerry: Yeah, that's, uh, that's quite a career and that's pretty awesome that you followed your childhood dreams. 

[00:05:04] Adam: Yeah, I was very lucky. Um, The support I had and the goals I set for me, it all worked out. And I was very lucky to become a police officer in my hometown, which was, which was great. It was a great, uh, um, opportunity for me to the community that I loved and truly blessed my career where I was born and raised.

[00:05:27] Jerry: Yeah. So, and since we're we're talking about mental health today and about what you went through today, I'm gonna like, Normally we talk about some other things, but I'm gonna cut right to the chase. You know, Adam, what happened? Like, I mean, you, you have a pretty powerful story. Can we go into that?

[00:05:44] Adam: Absolutely. Um, on April 8th, 2000, 2016, I was involved in a critical incident when I used deadly force against someone who had armed them themselves with a hatchet inside our Walmart store. I was actively working on a retail theft report at the police department when I got dispatched, and it was. Kind of like a, an unwanted person.

[00:06:08] Adam: Uh, this person did have mental health challenges themselves, and were at Walmart with a couple chaperones and they refused to leave the store. So one of the chaperones called 9 1 1 and, and requested police assistance to, uh, assist them with escorting this person outta the store so then they could take them back to the facility that they were at.

[00:06:29] Adam: And, uh, we get calls like that all the time. Um, So it didn't really, um, excite me at all. It was like, okay, I'm gonna go to Walmart. And, uh, we do this all the time. And as I was responding, it became, uh, progressively more and more emergent. Uh, dispatch continued to gimme updates as to what this person was doing.

[00:06:52] Adam: This person ended up being in the sporting good section and removed a hatchet from the packaging and then began threatening customers and walking around the store. I arrived and made contact with a man and a woman just inside the doorway. Cause I had no idea where this person was. So it was a Friday at 5:15 PM in the afternoon.

[00:07:14] Adam: Very, very busy inside Walmart. Yeah. So I asked these, these two people were, you know, what's going on, where are they at? They pointed down towards, uh, towards the health and beauty, kind of the lawn and garden section. And that's where I made contact with them. Uh, their back was to me, initially, they had the hatchet in their hand that I didn't see until they turned around and faced me.

[00:07:34] Adam: But they were hacking up, uh, bags of, of, uh, weed and feed that were on a pallet. So I identified myself, gave them multiple verbal commands to stop and to drop the hatchet. Uh, they refused to do that. They came at me and then I ended up shooting them twice. Um, several hours later, they, they died, which, you know, I know that.

[00:07:55] Adam: That decision to pull the trigger changed lives. Yeah. I know that it changed my life and it changed the lives of the people who were in Walmart, uh, those who witnessed it, and people that I know of, and even people that I don't know of. So, you know, it, it, it's still upsetting. It's something I think about every single day.

[00:08:16] Adam: I don't take it lightly. I, uh, I pulled the trigger and I, I took somebody's life and, you know, as a dad of two daughters, Um, this person had a young daughter at the time, so I, I understand the totality of it. All right. This person will never be able to attend holidays anymore. Their daughter will never be able to see their mom anymore.

[00:08:38] Adam: Their mom and dad will never be able to see their child anymore. That's a big deal. That's a big deal to me. And, um, I cried many times thinking about it. It's, uh, You know, I, I live worked and played in that community. I shopped at that Walmart all the time. I never thought something like this was gonna happen.

[00:08:56] Adam: Even when I was responding, I didn't, again, this was gonna happen and it just escalated so quickly and it was a, it was a tragic day. 

[00:09:04] Jerry: Yeah. That's kind of unheard of to be honest. Right. That's not something that typically happens or you hear about happening at a, at a store. 

[00:09:13] Adam: Right. Exactly. And I, um, there's a.

[00:09:17] Adam: There's, there's a lot of things that I don't remember. Um, you know, Walmart has a lot of cameras and, uh, when they began the investigation into my shooting, I reviewed some body camera footage, some, uh, surveillance footage, and there were a lot of things that, to this date, seven years later, I, I still don't remember.

[00:09:37] Adam: I can watch the video and say, yeah, that's me. I can see myself doing what I was trained to do. But somewhere up here, it's, it's blocking that, that memory and protecting me, which is good. Um, but still to this day, I, I don't have memory memories about a lot of things. And, you know, I talk about training a lot because it is so important.

[00:09:59] Adam: I, I, uh, responded the way I trained. Mm-hmm. And I don't remember responding that way. And I know as first respond, First responders, you know, specifically law enforcement. We may work third shift, second shift, and then find out we have to go to in-service training and we're kinda thinking, gosh, now I gotta switch my schedule all up.

[00:10:19] Adam: I gotta go sit in this classroom. I don't wanna do it. Or I have to go to the range, or I have to do other type of training. That's so important. Even if you don't wanna be there, it's so important. Cause I can tell you firsthand, I reacted, I responded the way I was trained. And I'm watching the videos and I don't remember doing some of this stuff, but that's me, me responding.

[00:10:42] Adam: Yeah. The way it was trained. So training is so important. 

[00:10:46] Jerry: It is. And then, and I mean, it's, I think it's very difficult, right, when you worked at different shifts to attend some of the trainings because you know Right. You're sacrificing your sleep and your time with your family and it's hard to, to juggle all that.

[00:11:01] Adam: Absolutely. Yep. That's a challenge, especially if you work third shift and then you gotta Yeah. You know, be at training at 8:00 AM and, and, and train till 4:00 PM I mean, that's, that can take a toll on you. Not only you, but your family or you know, people that support you. It can take a toll, but it's training is really, really important.

[00:11:19] Jerry: Yeah. I mean, sadly though, I mean, when you're very sleep deprived, that training really doesn't really set in 

[00:11:28] Adam: right. I agree. 

[00:11:30] Jerry: And. On that, like from that moment of that happening in, in Walmart, like I would imagine your probably just, your whole world just changed in a, in a blink of an eye. Um, maybe even just how you viewed the world.

[00:11:48] Adam: It did. I perceived things differently from, from that moment on and, you know, I remember. My corporal responding and bringing me out of Walmart, and we sat in the squad for a little bit and I remember him looking at me saying, Hey, look at that. And it was the media. The media was there almost immediately.

[00:12:08] Adam: And I remember being transported back to the police department into a conference room, and I didn't know the totality of everything. I know I did the right thing. Yeah. Nobody could convince me otherwise. I wanted to talk. I wanted to say, "this is where I was" and "This is what I was thinking at".

[00:12:23] Adam: And, uh, and I, I still remember sitting in the conference room thinking that once I get through all this and go back to work, I'm gonna talk about it and I'm gonna share my experiences, but I didn't know it was gonna take years. And I didn't know how this was gonna affect me. And it, it really did. It, it affects me in, in a negative way.

[00:12:40] Adam: Um, I'm wearing this, this vest that says it's okay to talk about mental health. As first responders, law enforcement, we wear a tactical vest like this, some this packed off, and some of the stress that I have is right here. I had anxiety, depression, stress over the years. Um, and, and with that I coped medically.

[00:13:02] Adam: Another hat I have is how I coped. I, I coped with excessive drinking and consuming alcohol. Um, I also, you know, casual sex drugs, marijuana for the first time. For all my life, I prided myself with, uh, never doing marijuana ever. And I remember telling people that I never did, and I could tell they didn't believe me, but it, it was important to me.

[00:13:26] Adam: But I was in a dark place that I was coping and I just wanted that quick fix. I wanted to escape. I wanted to feel good. And, and I did that. Um, So that was, that, that went on for years and it was really, really challenging. I, I talk about excessive alcohol, user abusing alcohol. You know, for example, I'd have, uh, a wine glass similar to, you know, this.

[00:13:49] Adam: And, uh, there was a method to the madness because I would buy wine bottles that were about three bucks. And the reason why I did that was because I could buy more of them. If they're only $3, I might be able to get three or four bottles. Yeah. But what I did was I made my own cocktail. I would add. You know, cold medicine or I would add, you know, sleeping medicine to it and I would, uh, drink as much wine as I wanted.

[00:14:14] Adam: Uh, there was one time I went into the bathroom in the medicine cabinet and my daughter's cold medicine that had codeine in it was in there and there was still a little left, so I poured it into my wine glass and drank and, you know, slept the day away. Um, drinking and driving, I did that. And the thing is, is.

[00:14:35] Adam: I was never like this before my shooting, before my critical incident, but this is the way I coped because it made me feel good. You know, I talk about wine, but then I went to liquor cause it got me where I wanted to go a lot quicker and, and I rationalized that before I needed to go somewhere. It would take alcohol about 30 minutes to kick in.

[00:14:55] Adam: So I would stop by the local gas station and buy some of this fireball whiskey. I'd consume it right in my car. I'd either throw it in the back. Of my SUV or throw it out the window when I was driving to my destination. And that's wrong. I, right. I could have been in a crash, I could have killed somebody.

[00:15:14] Adam: Um, I could have been arrested, and that's completely wrong. And that kind of rationalizing day and 30 minutes, the alcohol kick in. By then I'll be where I need to be. That's, that's wrong. That's completely wrong. And that was my, my biggest, easiest coping mechanism. You know, I have vodka here. I would drink this easily within 30 minutes, the whole thing, 30 minutes gone.

[00:15:36] Adam: And then I'd, I'd black out and pass out on the couch and sleep my day away. You know, I was a drunk. Um, I just didn't care. I, I really didn't care. And, you know, some of that's embarrassing and shameful, but that's where I was at the time. And, and, uh, you know, through therapy and through groups and speaking with other people, it's not that uncommon.

[00:15:58] Adam: Yeah, but we just don't talk about that stuff. And like my first patch on my vest, it's okay to talk about your mental health. You know, you're not alone. You don't have to suffer in silence. Um, but first responders, we, many of us, most of us just don't reach out and we just don't talk about that kinda stuff. So, 

[00:16:16] Jerry: yeah. Very true. Right? It's, uh, it's something that's very private. I mean, so. You know, it's that when we're struggling, we keep that, um, very private. I mean, it's right. I, I don't know, you know, what to really say about it. Like it's maybe viewed as a sign of weakness still, um, you know, that people are struggling.

[00:16:38] Jerry: But I mean, you're right. You're not alone. And, and, and, and I do tremendously appreciate your honesty. Um, I mean that's, thank you. Gotta be very difficult. Um, you know, to talk about, cuz I mean, I, I could, right? I can feel that, I can feel that from you, right? That's not you knew, you know better, right? But it was just where you're at.

[00:17:00] Jerry: I, my question is like, how f how fast did you get there? 

[00:17:06] Adam: What do you mean? To Walmart? Or, 

[00:17:07] Jerry: yeah, I mean, not to, I mean, how fast did you get to like this coping? Um, that was just out of hand 

[00:17:16] Adam: pretty quick. Pretty quick. Um, and I think, you know, I would drink a lot of my days off and before my shooting I would collect wine.

[00:17:27] Adam: I would, I had a wine rack and um, so I had many bottles of wine and I just was always sticking around the house. I'd draw my blinds and my curtains, um, and just kind of isolate myself in the house on days off. I would be invited to, uh, social events, and I'd always make an excuse as to why I wasn't going to go, or I just wouldn't go.

[00:17:51] Adam: Uh, there was one time I did go and, and somebody that I worked with told me is like, wow, you do come outta your house. You know? But that was a realization. I, I got there real quick and, uh, because I just wanted to numb it. I was self-medicating and I, I just didn't care. I, I just, I knew what I was doing was wrong, but I wanted it to all go away, and even if it was gonna go away a little bit, yeah, I would, I would do that.

[00:18:19] Adam: So, yep. 

[00:18:20] Jerry: Did you, I mean, so were you having struggles in your career before the, the incident at Walmart? 

[00:18:27] Adam: No, I wasn't. Um, you know, throughout my career I was with that department for 14 years. Uh, through my career there I was a field training officer, a detective, an instructor in firearms, uh, professional communication, skills officer, wellness, um, vehicle contacts, and, uh, you know, scenario instructor.

[00:18:48] Adam: So I wasn't, I loved being a cop. I absolutely loved being a cop and. I knew that I was struggling because there was times I would go to work and I would just get in the squad and I'd go park somewhere and I wasn't as proactive as I, I used to be. And you know, I wouldn't go park and hide. I would, I would park somewhere so people could see my squad and if they needed help, they could flag me down And, you know, I'd respond to my calls and still do the best I could.

[00:19:16] Adam: But I think my biggest. Thing that that was challenging was initially I didn't realize that being back in uniform was triggering for me. Uh, I was promoted to detective a year after my shooting, so I'd be in plain clothes and then there'd be times I'd be in uniform to cover up, uh, you know, avoiding the shift or whatever.

[00:19:37] Adam: And, um, You know, I could be told, Hey, tomorrow you gotta, you gotta work patrol, or next week you have to work patrol or next month. And even if it's a month away, I'd start getting all stirred up and anxious and worried it's a month away. But I was struggling and once I figured it out, you know, it was fine.

[00:19:56] Adam: But, uh, initially I, I didn't, I didn't know what was going on. 

[00:20:01] Jerry: Yeah. What was going on at home with family life like, Uh, I mean, this has gotta be impactful right? To your, your family and your kids, right? 

[00:20:12] Adam: Right. Well, the thing is, is the department I worked at, uh, most of my family and friends lived about three and a half hours away.

[00:20:19] Adam: I was a single dad at the time of, of two daughters, and I had my, my kids about half the week. So it was really easy to hide things, you know, if nobody's around and I'm texting, hey, I'm ok, I'm fine. Like we all do's it going, oh, I'm good. I'm ok. If nobody's around, there's nobody to prove that I'm not okay.

[00:20:36] Adam: I'm not fine. But I, I really find it hard to believe that nobody realized that something was going on. I think they did, but, and, and I understand this part. I, I just think that some people just didn't know what to say or didn't know how to reach out, so they just did nothing. And I, and I, I've been there, I've done that too.

[00:20:53] Adam: Yeah. Um, but you know, it, it's, It was a challenge. It was a challenge, and this is something that I'm gonna share with you that I've never shared, uh, publicly or professionally. And, uh, it's shameful. And, um, it has to do with my younger daughter and my younger daughter graduates from, uh, the police academy next month.

[00:21:14] Adam: Oh, wow. Um, she already has her, uh, criminal justice degree and she's graduating next month and she's, Amazing. She's very supportive and I asked her if I could share this because she doesn't remember it that much, but there was a time that, um, I had to pick her up after school at her mom's house, which was, you know, probably about 15, 20 minutes away from where I live.

[00:21:37] Adam: And I had been consuming alcohol all day. And come three, four o'clock, I'm thinking, oh, I gotta go pick up my daughter. So I got in my car and I went and picked her up. And I was impaired. I was intoxicated, uh, too much to drive, but I drove anyways, picked her up and I had to bring her to gymnastics. And um, I got off the off ramp and instead of going right towards where I needed to go, I went left and drove an additional 30 miles with her in the car with me.

[00:22:07] Adam: That's embarrassing. That's shameful. That's my daughter. And. I just, I didn't care. And that shows that I didn't care. Um, she says she doesn't remember, but I, I remember when we're driving to her college graduation, I said, honey, I wanna share something with you because I would like to share it with other people.

[00:22:28] Adam: And, and she goes, oh, it's okay, daddy. You know, I don't really remember it, but yeah, I love you. And if it, if it helps you heal and helps other people. Yeah. So she's a, she's really supportive. But, uh, yeah, at least 30 miles with my daughter in the car when I was. Impaired, and that's just wrong. I got so lucky that, that I didn't hurt her.

[00:22:49] Jerry: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It, it's, it's a, it's hard. I can see how hard it is still, and it's, um, you know, I just praise you for where, where you, what you've done. You know, to, to get to where you are today and then to talk about it. I mean, that is tremendously powerful. I mean, so you have this happening in your personal life, you know, things like this happening, what's happening professionally.

[00:23:18] Jerry: I, I mean, at work, we touched on it a little bit, you know, about getting, you know, filling the triggers as you go on patrol and stuff like that. But I mean, there's probably other things that are happening at work. 

[00:23:28] Adam: Oh, right. I mean, I was, the department's very first detective. They went to a referendum because we needed a detective.

[00:23:35] Adam: Three of us interviewed for the position and I got it. So I was the very first detective. So I continued to go to critical incidents throughout the years, um, uh, uh, homicide and, you know, one critical incident where somebody was huffing, um, and driving his truck and he ran over and, and, and killed three girl scouts in the troop leader, and, uh, At the end of the day, I was one of the officers that was interviewing this suspect and, um, you know, many other critical incidents chasing a bank robber that, that just robbed the bank.

[00:24:10] Adam: And I chased him for, uh, over 20 miles and we knew he had a gun and stole money and found out he robbed other banks, four other banks, one in Michigan. Um, so, but I continued to do a good job. I continued to receive commendations, state citation, um, Um, you know, um, commendable service medal. I received a, um, material, uh, a Medal of Merit for my shooting.

[00:24:38] Adam: Um, an award of valor through the state for my shooting, stuff like that. So I continued to be able to focus on the task at hand, but then when I was off duty, I was struggling. Um, and you know, what happened was, is in. 2021, I attended a active shooter training at a, at a school. And I remember I was seated comfortably like this.

[00:25:08] Adam: And we were watching a PowerPoint presentation about active shooters and, um, the different active shooters and critical incidents throughout the years. And they continued to go to different shootings. That occurred in April, April, April. And that's when mine, my critical incident happened. And I remember getting this knot in my stomach.

[00:25:26] Adam: I'm getting really, really hot. And about a minute later I went like this to wipe my bra on and my hand was drenched in water. I was having a panic attack. Mm-hmm. And I was seated comfortably. There was probably about 20 other police officers in the room. They all knew me. They all knew what I went through.

[00:25:42] Adam: I easily could have said, I need to take a step out, you know, and it would've been okay, but my first instinct was to fight it, to hide it. And that's what I did. I continued through the training. Passed the training, went home for a couple days, and then I had to go back on New Year's Eve and, um, work a patrol shift for somebody.

[00:26:03] Adam: And I remember I jumped in the squad, got all my gear ready, and, uh, started logging on to my mdc. And I was like, you know what? I quit. I'm done. I can't do this anymore. I I'm not gonna do this anymore. And I don't think, I don't think, when I said I quit, It meant I wanted to quit being a cop. I think it was that I just needed the right kinda help.

[00:26:25] Adam: So I spoke with my sergeant, spoke with the chief, they were very supportive. They sent me home and, uh, had a couple weeks off and they said, you know, in order for you to come back to work, you have to have a psych eval. And I was like, absolutely. I'm all for it because I've been speaking about mental health and my critical incident since 2019.

[00:26:44] Adam: So absolutely, I'll do that. Yeah. And, um, So I did, I, I went, um, to do the psych eval and like seven, eight hours later I went, uh, you know, unfit for duty. And that's what this page right here is. I was unfit for duty and I remember reading this 12 page report about me and I started crying. It was emotional because I'm reading this stuff that was accurate.

[00:27:10] Adam: And it started connecting dots. I'm like, absolutely, that makes sense. Has trouble with relationships and, and uh, maybe antisocial and all this other stuff. And I'm like, this is me now. Now a lot of what I've been going through. Makes sense. Um, so the plan was the department psychologist, the plan was he recommended six months short-term disability for me to attend therapy.

[00:27:33] Adam: And, um, so I started emdr. Um, in a bunch of other therapy two, three times a week. And it was great. I was learning so much about myself, learning so much about why I was doing some things and remembering some of the negative things I was doing. Um, so it was really, really helpful. I started seeing a therapist.

[00:27:54] Adam: That's another patch I got right here. I see a therapist now every Tuesday at 8:00 AM I see a counselor. I'm sitting on a couch talking with her, and it's great. I'm learning so much about my, uh, what happened to me over the years personally, professionally, and I also take, I take medicine. It helps me, and this is my 20 milligrams of Lexapro right here.

[00:28:23] Adam: And this is, um, some Propranolol and Lexapro is an antidepressant and helps me stress, anxiety. And propranolol is like a blood pressure medicine. So if I get a little anxious, you take it as as needed. And um, that's okay. It helps me and I'll continue to take it as long as it continues to help me. And I don't see, I know there's many first responders that, that take medicine, and that's okay.

[00:28:46] Adam: You know, they don't talk about it and you don't have to. Yeah. But if you can find something, if you can find therapy, if you can find medicine, something that helps you, a group talking with somebody that you trust, do that. Because there's so many people out there that wanna help you, that love you, that, that want you to be okay, and you don't have to suffer in silence.

[00:29:09] Adam: So, 

[00:29:10] Jerry: yeah. Do, do you think as first responders, that, um, we fight really hard against taking medication? 

[00:29:21] Adam: I think so, I think there's a stigma, um, that completely surrounds mental health. I think there always will be. I, I think it'll get better because it is getting better, more people are talking about it and, uh, being open and honest about their mental health, uh, either their personal mental health or knowing somebody else that's going through, uh, some challenging times.

[00:29:42] Adam: So, but yeah, you know, I mean, initially I was like, I don't wanna take medicine. Yeah. But if it's gonna help me, and I had to take a couple different, uh, types of meds until I figured out what worked for me. But I literally wake up in the morning, pop a pill, go to the bathroom, and I'm off with my day. It's helpful.

[00:30:03] Adam: It works for me, and I'll continue to do it as long as it keeps working for me. Yeah. 

[00:30:07] Jerry: That's awesome. I mean, the, and I, I love that you stuck to it, right? Because sometimes, you know, trying different medications and things like that, It is difficult cuz they don't always work for you. Right? They work different for different people.

[00:30:22] Jerry: So you have to find what works for you. 

[00:30:25] Adam: Right and like I, I tell many people you need to be honest with yourself. You need to be honest with yourself. Um, and if a certain medicine, let's say for example, you're gonna take a medicine is just not working. You need to be honest and say, it's not working. This is what I'm feeling.

[00:30:40] Adam: This is a side effect. And to take a, to talk a little bit more about. Being unfit for duty. I remember driving to the psychologist's office and I was thinking, you know what, Adam, I'm gonna lie. I'm not gonna be honest. I'm gonna try to beat this test. And then I thought, the only way that you're gonna get better is to be honest.

[00:31:03] Adam: So I went there and I, I was tested on many different things and I was honest, and I'm glad I was because that's the only way that I got better in that. I am where I am today because I was honest. And it's not easy. It's awkward, it's uncomfortable, it's embarrassing. Yeah. But you have to do it to, to get better.

[00:31:22] Jerry: Yeah, definitely. I mean, being unfit for duty must have really shook you.

[00:31:31] Adam: Yeah, it did. And uh, it, it crushed me cause. Like I told you in the beginning, I wanted to be an er car man and, and worked hard to, to grow up and be a police officer. And, and I just saw this as a challenge that I'm gonna face head on and I'm gonna get past this and I'm gonna go back to work. And I had no doubt in my mind that I was gonna go back to work.

[00:31:53] Adam: Um, it, it was challenging. It really was challenging for me because I didn't receive any kind of worker's compensation. I had to apply for unemployment. Oh, and. While I was going to therapy and part of unemployment is you have to apply for jobs. So I was applying for jobs and interviewing at places. I'm thinking, why am I doing this?

[00:32:17] Adam: I'm trying to go back to work and, and continue my career and retire. This is all I've ever wanted to do. This is all I know. And in order to get unemployment, you have to apply and interview at all these different places. And I, I, I really struggled. It. It was hard. And, um, One of the things I have, I have here, things a lot of us don't like to talk about is suicide.

[00:32:45] Adam: That's the real deal right there. You can't come back from that. Right? And, uh, talk, we talked earlier about visual aids. This is a solid plastic replica of my duty weapon. No working parts. Um, but easily, I would say probably 12 times I put my gun to my head. I easily did that, and I can't even tell you how many times I did it when I was blackout drunk.

[00:33:12] Adam: Um, I had a 40 Glock model, 22, and I always removed the magazine and, uh, cleared the chamber and always thought that there was no bullet in there, no round in there. And I wasn't thinking about committing suicide. I just wanted to hear that metallic click, that click, that click the, the pressure pulling the trigger.

[00:33:31] Adam: Yeah. But like I said, how many times did I do it when I was intoxicated that I don't remember. I could have very easily died by suicide, and my loved ones could have found me, and everybody would've been kinda like, well, you know, Adam, we, we understand. It's sad, but I never wanted to, but I easily could. I, I could have died by suicide, by the cocktails of alcohol I was making because I was taking medicine too.

[00:33:57] Adam: I could have drank so much alcohol that I passed out on the couch and never woke up. So suicide. It's, it's, it's really a, a difficult topic to talk about with many people, and this is a safety plan that I was on. Um, I remember they put me on a safety plan, and that was upsetting for me because, For many years as a police officer, I had always been there for other people when they were struggling with mental health, when they had thoughts of self harm or suicide and, and now it's me.

[00:34:36] Adam: Now they're putting me on a safety plan because they're concerned that I may do something and I had no intent to kill myself, but because of some of the answers during my test at the psych eval and stuff like that, they just wanted to make sure, and I'm glad they did. Um, because the support I, I received was, was great.

[00:34:57] Adam: And, uh, it, it's very important. Um, you know, if, if you need to be on a safety plan, swallow your pride, do what you gotta do to get better. And, uh, it was hard for me yeah. Sitting in that psychologist's office and having the person who was supporting me signing off as a witness saying, yeah, I'll make sure Adam does this.

[00:35:18] Adam: I'll make sure his guns are here. And I mean, that was. That was surreal. I mean, it, it was me. It wasn't somebody I was helping. It was me. I was, I was the person who really needed help. 

[00:35:31] Jerry: Yeah. So it's very power. Very powerful story. Adam. Like I thank you. Um, in some ways a, a, a lot of loss for words that come because.

[00:35:45] Jerry: To be honest, you know, it's hard to even imagine going through that, that level. I mean, I've had my own personal struggles and thoughts of suicide and stuff like that, but, you know, to different levels and I mean, I, I just, I, I never put a gun to my head and I, I, I, I can't imagine just doing that and then trying to like, like listen for the click or, or.

[00:36:10] Jerry: Is that, was that just trying to like, maybe just the, or like a rush to feel like you're alive to feel something? Or do you know why you were doing that? I, 

[00:36:19] Adam: I really don't. I really don't. Uh, you know, some people tell me that maybe I was preparing to do it deep down or somewhere in my mind I was thinking, yeah, eventually I'm gonna do this.

[00:36:30] Adam: Cause you know, there were times that I would go to bed and I'd pray to God. God, please don't. I I don't wanna wake up. Just lemme go to bed and not wake up. Yeah. It, it just, what I was going through to say it sucked is putting it lighting. Right. Um, but it did, I, I remember laying in bed like it was yesterday, just saying, God, please don't let me wake up or hit the fast forward button so everything is better.

[00:36:53] Adam: Yeah. Um, and that didn't happen, which is good. Um, and I'm doing a lot better now. So much better than, than what I. How I used to be. Um, last year I attended a certified peer support course and uh, took a test with the state of Wisconsin and became a certified peer specialist with the state of Wisconsin.

[00:37:19] Adam: And you know, I thought to myself, hopefully, Everything I went through, I can be there for veteran officers, for new officers, for first responders, and share my experience. So even if they don't wanna talk about what, what they're going through, if they're going through something, then it's relatable. They can sit there and think, Hey, I'm not alone.

[00:37:41] Adam: I, I do that too. Maybe I should get some help. And I know it's working because there was a counselor that reached out to me, um, through Messenger saying, just wanna let you know there was an officer that heard you speak the other day. And they came to my office and they decided to get help. And I'm like, that's what it's all about.

[00:37:59] Adam: That's awesome. That's what it's all about. So it really made me feel good. Um, it really sucked to go through, but it made that, that's, that made it all worth it right there. And if I only reach one person, then it's, then, then it's worth it. Yeah. So yeah, 

[00:38:16] Jerry: that's, that's powerful. That's incredible. I mean, that's you something you should be, take a lot of, a lot of pride in cuz that was really hard to go through and.

[00:38:29] Jerry: I mean, that's an understatement to say, really hard to go through, and it's incredibly difficult to share, but yeah, that's, it's making an impact. Right. And that impact even just with maybe one person snowballs, right? It's just mm-hmm. What about his family and friends and things like that? I mean, that's, having one person is really, it's, it's not really one person.

[00:38:50] Adam: Right. And I remember I went, um, in Wisconsin there's a place called w a place called Wisconsin Dells. It's the water park capital world. And yeah, and I went down there, um, to speak during a field training officer conference. And um, I went down there thinking, yeah, nobody's gonna know me. And then I went down there and it's like everybody from where I worked was down there.

[00:39:12] Adam: And I'm thinking, well, I was wrong, but, but it was good because. My daughter, my youngest daughter who supports me and, and who I share that story about. She was with me Too. And we're driving back and I get a message from somebody who works in a jail and, uh, she told me, thank you so much for sharing your experience.

[00:39:33] Adam: My, uh, boyfriend, you know, went through some struggles and doesn't talk about certain things, but a lot of what you said, Makes sense. It kind of connected the dots with me and I learned so much of what he might be going through. So thank you. And, and that trip, that, that's what it was all about. That, that made everything worth it.

[00:39:54] Adam: And, uh, that's all I want do is, is share my experience and hope somebody. 

[00:40:00] Jerry: Yeah. Well, yeah, definitely. And, and you're doing that, so I appreciate that. I mean, kind of, so what did happen with your career? I mean, generally being unfit for duties, right? That could be the end of your career. 

[00:40:13] Adam: Right. So what what happened was in, uh, in February I submitted Ava absence, a 90-day absence, uh, per our police contract.

[00:40:23] Adam: I could do that and it was approved. So for 90 days I went to therapy. I was going through EMDR and a lot of other, uh, treatment, and it was really, really helping me. And in May I had a meeting with my chief. And the chief told me that we're not going to extend your leave of absence. You can either resign or we're gonna terminate you.

[00:40:46] Adam: And I thought it over and I refused to quit. I knew what I was going through and the struggles that I was facing was because of my critical incident, because of my shooting and I wasn't gonna quit. Um, it's upsetting cause I really at the time had no doubt in my mind that I was gonna go back to work cause I was feeling better than I.

[00:41:08] Adam: And, um, I, I still remember being, you know, walked into my detective office and, and packing up boxes and being escorted outta the police department. And then that was it. I'm thinking, what now? All I've ever wanted to be as a cop. And, um, fortunately I had support and somebody to go home to that supported me.

[00:41:31] Adam: Um, but then I'm thinking, What if I was somebody else that had no kind of support and they'd just lost their lifelong dream job and they went home and killed themselves? Mm-hmm. It was almost like, all right, he doesn't work here anymore. And that was it. And what I also struggle with is I feel like I was just abandoned.

[00:41:51] Adam: I feel like I was ghosted by almost everybody. I, I worked for at the police department for 14 years. Nobody reaches out, nobody texts, nobody calls, nobody messages me. Um, even when I was on Levi absence, nobody made contact with me or kept in contact with me. I mean, if they bumped out, if they bumped into me when I was out and about, they'd say, Hey, how you doing?

[00:42:14] Adam: Stuff like that. Yeah. And, and I know it goes both ways, but I, I went on life and death, you know, death calls with these men and women and I just feel completely abandoned and it's really hurtful. Sure. So, um, You know, I moved away, um, moved about three and a half hours away. Moved in with my sister in her guest room, and she's been unbelievable.

[00:42:42] Adam: She keeps me in check and makes, makes sure I continue to go to therapy, which I do. Um, I have a amazing girlfriend who's very supportive. She's a nurse practitioner. Uh, she's been through some trauma over the years, so I mean, she really listens to me and really. The support that I, I have is great and, uh, I, I wanna talk a little bit about support.

[00:43:08] Adam: Yeah. Because that's really, really important. It's, it's really, really important. So, the chief that I met with when I was terminated was a different chief than what was with me after my shooting and, uh, almost immediately after my shooting that chief, um, You know, spoke with the media and said he supported me and I saw that and I printed out his statement and I put it in a frame and it sat on my desk up until, uh, 2022.

[00:43:41] Adam: You know, when I, when I was terminated. And you know, when, when you know you have that kind of support, when you know your chief of police. Your supervisors, the men and women that you work with support you, the community supports you. That's everything. You know, I remember sometimes I'd, I'd be at work and I'd look at this, this, uh, statement from the chief, you know, when I'm bummed out and I'm like, well, I, I know he supports me.

[00:44:06] Adam: I'd go out in the community and there'd be community members that I didn't even know that would recognize me and say, Hey, we're praying for you. Can I give you a hug? And I was like, yeah, sure. I mean, that made me feel good. I'm thinking people who don't even know me, Want me to be Okay. So I know, you know, if you're, if you're watching this right now and you're struggling, please reach out.

[00:44:27] Adam: If you don't know how, just say, Hey, something's going on. I don't get it. But I need some kinda help. I don't know what kinda help. I just need help. Just don't suffer in silence. Cause there's so many people out there, even people you don't even know that want help. Right. And that support is so important.

[00:44:43] Jerry: Yeah. Yeah, that I, I can relate, you know, a little bit about film, you know, when you go out. Um, my time out was like, you know, it was from an injury and, you know, it was very, very difficult cuz you do feel isolated and alone. And I truly believed I was doing everything right to get back to work. And it was just taking an incredibly long time.

[00:45:10] Jerry: But there wasn't a lot of support. Um, you know, not, not a lot of people checking up on me, to be honest. Right. And my life was in a, is was in a whirlwind of, of a disarray. Right. Um, not to not, you know, as a lot of it was my own fault to be, you know, I have to take, take that responsibility on. But um, yeah, and I'm just like, I'm the one thing that's sticking out in my mind, cuz I was just thinking about when I was, um, out of work for 500 days.

[00:45:43] Jerry: Like I was on disability, so I got, I think it was 50% basically of my income. But I can't imagine, Adam, you're trying to get help and you're having to try to cover your bills while you're on dis disability or on the leave. Like you're still, you have to go to apply for, um, Unemployment. Unemployment. Yeah.

[00:46:08] Jerry: Sorry. I was my, my unemployment. I like, it's just like mind boggling to me. I'm like, where is the bridge? Like where is the bridge for that? 

[00:46:19] Adam: My, my credit. My credit was affected. My credit is horrible now. Uh, for about five months not having that same type of income to, to cover my auto loan, to cover other bills that I had.

[00:46:32] Adam: Yeah. You know, I, I think I got like $312 a week for unemployment, so I just did what I could. Right. And sometimes doing what I could was taking $50 and spending it on me to go out to eat to. Feel good about myself. Yeah. Because it's really easy to get down in the dumps when you're not making thousands of dollars like you used to.

[00:46:56] Adam: Sure. And now you're barely getting by and Yeah, my credit sucks. It really does. Um, but I'm working on it and it's okay, but it's, yeah, I, for five months, I, it was, it was really rough. 

[00:47:14] Jerry: Yeah, I like that's just adding fuel to the fire, right? Of the problems that you're going through. And adding a financial aspect to it is right.

[00:47:27] Jerry: That's just right. Massively fix you. 

[00:47:30] Adam: When I talk about, um, wanting to go back to work, you know, I was even told there's no guarantee that you're gonna go back to work. There's no guarantee that you're gonna come back and maybe have to leave again. Um, But I'm thinking I'm doing better. I, I, I feel like I was completely abandoned.

[00:47:47] Adam: Um, the department psychologist, like I said earlier, had mentioned six months short-term disability, so that would've meant I go back to work in August. You know, if I continue with therapy and do well, there's a good possibility that I go back to work in August. Well, that was cut short in May. I didn't, I wasn't even given the opportunity and I just, yeah.

[00:48:10] Adam: I just remember it all ended there and it's just, it, it really hurts. Cause it just really hurts. 

[00:48:18] Jerry: Yeah. Yeah. I, I would imagine, and, and, and I know it hurts. Like I just can't imagine to your level, I mean, being in this situation that you're in is incredible. Let's talk about your, the patch that you're wearing now.

[00:48:34] Adam: Uh, peer specialist, that's what I talked about earlier. Uh, certified peer specialist in the state of Wisconsin. I figured, hey, you know, if I'm never gonna be a cop again, I'm gonna use my experience to help others. So it was a 16 week course, and then you had to take a, a state test, which I passed. Uh, really nervous.

[00:48:51] Adam: I'm like, I better pass this test. I really, I really, I really wanna do this. And I did. And, uh, you know what? A peer specialist in. And, uh, Wisconsin is, you know, we use our lived experiences to provide support to others and demonstrate that, you know, recovery is possible. Uh, as you can tell, I'm very transparent.

[00:49:09] Adam: Um, there's never enough time to, for me to really get everything out. Sure. Um, but I truly wanna be there for people. I truly wanna support people who feel like they're alone and feel like, uh,

[00:49:26] Adam: They don't know what's going on or, or they don't know who to, who to get help from or, you know. My biggest thing was when I was cleared and went back to work, I met an officer that I knew previous to my shooting and, and he was also involved in a shooting and he was injured during the shooting and just speaking with him shortly after being cleared, I'm like, He's like me, somebody else who kind of gets it.

[00:49:52] Adam: Yeah. And I can just spill my guts. I can vent, I can talk about stuff. And I don't have to explain it because he genu, he, you know, he generally gets it. And that was like everything. And then I'd go to another call and they, you know, somebody else would be like, Hey, are you Adam? Yeah. Okay. And, and they talk about their experience or shooting.

[00:50:10] Adam: And I'm like, that made me feel that I wasn't alone. That somebody else was out there that was like me. And that's peer support. Yeah, and you don't have to take a test. You don't have to go to training to be a peer support. You can just be there, be there for your brothers and sisters. I mean, you know, I always say as first responders, we're first to respond, but last to respond to our own needs.

[00:50:36] Adam: Last to take care of ourselves. And especially in law enforcement, when we wear these vests, you gotta take the vest off. You gotta start taking care of yourself. If you wanna continue to, to have a successful and long career, you gotta take care of yourself. And sometimes it takes what I did saying, enough's enough, I quit, I'm done.

[00:50:55] Adam: I need to get the right kind help. And, uh, you know, sometimes it doesn't always end up the way you, you expected. I didn't, I didn't think I was gonna be terminated. Right? I, and you know what, so what, because it. I'm sitting here right now talking to you because I got the right, kinda help, the right kinda, uh, support and I'm doing so much better and I'm glad I would do it all over again.

[00:51:19] Adam: Even if I knew I'd, I'd lose my job and never be a cop ever again. Um, my own personal wellbeing, my mental wellbeing is so much better than any kind of job. Yeah, you can go out and find. Jobs are out there like crazy now. So, I mean, you can go out there and find something, but, uh, I, I'd do it all over again.

[00:51:38] Adam: Even if I knew I'd, I'd lose my job. 

[00:51:41] Jerry: Yeah, I know Adam. People are probably wondering, what are you up to? Like, what, what are you doing? 

[00:51:47] Adam: Well, I, I currently live in southeast Wisconsin. I work for a county. Um, initially I was hired by that county as a crisis worker. And then I took another job as an economic support specialist.

[00:52:02] Adam: So I assist people with, uh, insurance and, and food share, food stamps and stuff like that. So I like that, not only because it has a great schedule 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM Monday through Friday, weekends and holidays off. That's awesome. I'm not used to that. I love, I love it. Um, but I'm still able to help people.

[00:52:20] Adam: Yeah. And that was my biggest thing. I, I lost. My identity, and I think there's a part of me that still has lost my identity because I was a cop for so many years. That was me. I was a cop. I was helping people, and I remember talking to many family members and my sister, and even my girlfriend, and they said, Adam, that's just who you are.

[00:52:41] Adam: It doesn't matter if you're wearing the badge. That's the kind of person you are. You help people. Yeah. Doesn't matter if you're still a cop or not, that's who you are. You were that way before you were sworn in in 2001, and you're gonna continue to be that way the rest of your life. And I'm like, yeah, you're right.

[00:52:57] Adam: I, I agree. But still miss being a cop, you know, I still, 

[00:53:01] Jerry: yeah. I can understand that. I mean, clearly you are that person that still is, uh, has that heart to help people and you're solving problems, it sounds like, in a, in a different manner. But I mean, you're you're still doing that, right? Which is still impactful, right?

[00:53:17] Adam: Yep. 

[00:53:18] Jerry: Adam, where Yeah. And you're doing, there's no trying, Adam, you're doing No, you're doing it, Adam. Where, where can people find you and follow you and like maybe get in touch with you if they need to? 

[00:53:30] Adam: Well, I started speaking about my critical incident in two 19 and, uh, you know, 2021 I established Stop the threat, stop the stigma.

[00:53:41] Adam: I'm the founder of Stop the Threat, stop the stigma and you can find more information about that. Stop the threat, stop the stigma.org. I'm also on Facebook and, uh, you don't feel free to, to shoot me an email and, uh, share your experience with me, but. It's something that I have a real, uh, a passion for, and I, I really enjoy sharing my experience and hopes that it'll, it'll help somebody I, you know, I established, established, stop the threat, stop the stigma and hopes that it will inspire other law enforcement professionals and those who work in the public safety profession to, to speak about their mental health or to be there for somebody who may be struggling.

[00:54:19] Adam: So, um, that's the mission. I really, I really hope that I'm able to help and continue to help people by. By, uh, sharing my experience. 

[00:54:29] Jerry: Yeah. Well, Adam, I mean, you need to remember this one thing. You were doing it, I think, like, you, you, you are doing it. I mean, there's no thinking about it. You are doing it right.

[00:54:39] Jerry: You've taken the steps, you're sharing your story. You are the person that's doing it. You are making that fight, you know, for people to stop the stigma. So, and I deeply appreciate that. Thanks, Jerry. I appreciate that. Yeah, Adam, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. 

[00:54:58] Adam: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[00:55:00] Jerry: Thanks again for listening. Don't forget to rate and review the show wherever you access your podcast. If you know someone that would be great on the show, please get a hold of our host, Jerry Dean Lund, through the Instagram handles at Jerry Fire and Fuel, or at Enduring The Badge Podcast also by visiting the show's website Enduring the badge podcast.com for additional methods of contact and up to date information regarding the show. 

[00:55:35] Jerry: Remember, The views and opinions expressed during the show solely represent those of our host and the current episodes guest.