Do You Want To Be A Great Mentor- Author's Sam & Chris Adams

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Intro  0:08  
Hi, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of Enduring the Badge Podcast. I'm your host, Jerry Dean Lund. And I don't want you to miss an upcoming episode. So please hit that subscribe button. And while your phones out, please do me a favor and give us a review on iTunes or Apple podcasts. It says, Hey, this podcast has a great message and we should send it out to more people. So please take that 30 seconds to a minute to do that review. And just maybe by doing that, it will push this up into someone's podcast feed that really needs this message. Now let's jump into this next episode with my very special guests.

Jerry D. Lund  0:35  
Sam and Chris, how you guys doing?

Sam & Chris Adams  0:38  
We're doing great. Thanks for having us on the show. Joe has been kind of a longtime caller. Yeah, no, but excited to be here. So thanks for having us.

Jerry D. Lund  0:50  
Yeah, you guys been super busy. So we'll dive down into that. How're you doing, Sam?

Sam & Chris Adams  0:56  
I'm doing well. Thank you very much. Glad to glad to be here for the opportunity.

Jerry D. Lund  1:02  
Yeah, you guys have been working hard on getting some books together. But before we talk about your awesome books that you have, let's just talk about a little bit about each one of you. Go ahead, Chris, yes.

Sam & Chris Adams  1:14  
Yeah. So I'm Chris. I'm a firefighter paramedic for city of Colorado Springs Fire Department, been a medic for about 11 years now. It started EMS career up in Denver, outside of one of the suburbs out there running an ambulance and a 911 system and one of the suburbs up there. Started out there as an EMT, doing the wheelchair van tour that everybody seems to do at some point in their career, then sort of just worked my way up the ranks, went to paramedic school up there. And then was fortunate enough to get a job with the Colorado Springs Fire Department a few years later. And so I've been down here in the springs for about eight years now. That is a quick down and dirty of my EMS stuff. And Sam's is pretty much the same. Yeah, I'll let him yeah, my story is pretty similar, went to EMT school back in '07, I think. And then got hired all at the same company up in Denver, as a wheelchair van transport, and then progress through the the BLS ambulances, and then the ALS ambulances and worked up there for about seven years on the ambulance. And then the last year of which was kind of part time because I had gotten on as well with Colorado Springs Fire a year after Chris did and went to paramedic school in I always, I can never remember if I went in 2011 or 2012. I think it was 2011.

Jerry D. Lund  3:11  
That's always a blur.

Sam & Chris Adams  3:13  
So I had been working working for the Coral Springs Fire Department for since 2014. So

Jerry D. Lund 3:22  
That is very similar pass. So you guys basically start at the bottom of EMS and work your way up.

Sam & Chris Adams  3:33  
Yeah. Yeah, it's been sort of all I feel like we've we've been a part of lots of different positions, which has really added value. You know, when you're sitting in the, in the wheelchair transport position, it seems not as exciting, I think in a lot of ways. But if you take the opportunity to really learn what you can, from that position, it can really set the stage for a good foundation, I think in the later parts of your career. And you can really learn a lot from those positions, I think as well. So it's, it's been quite a journey, I think, in a lot of ways.

Jerry D. Lund  4:20  
What are some of those things that you learned in being in that position?

Sam & Chris Adams  4:24  
Yeah, I think no, go ahead, dude. Oh, I was gonna say I think one of the most important things that I learned was the human component, the sort of humanity that is so essential to taking care of people because you're really forced to communicate more with your patients because you're not as much involved in treatment plans and developing intervention plans and interviewing patients to see what chief complaints are as much. So you can really become more immersed in a conversation with those people and really learn how to communicate with patients on a different level that sort of translates over into the EMS world, I think really well. And so I think that was one of the biggest things that I learned. And then I really took the opportunity to try and begin my assessment skills in a very low consequence setting. So you could, you know, so yeah, kind of begin talking to them about maybe why they're going to the doctor's office, or what's been bothering them for the last week, and then try and go into your basic lines of questioning to see if you can maybe get some information and learn a few things. And in a very low, low consequence setting, which was really a good opportunity, I think, to start building that platform or that foundation for you to kind of jump off into the EMS world in general. Yeah, yeah, that's what I what I tried to do. So

Jerry D. Lund  6:23  
How about you SAM, do you have anything you want to add to that? Anything that you picked up was a little different?

Sam & Chris Adams  6:28  
Um, yeah, I think for me, a lot of it was I, I remember, specifically, one morning when I was brand new on the ambo ambo van or the wheelchair van. And I was in downtown Denver with a patient in the back. And I remember praying for red lights so that I could look at the map book that was out in front of my lap, because I had no idea where I was going, I was like, Can I just please get a red light so I can look down and and look at the map book and try to figure out where I'm going? So I think a lot of it was just building confidence in yourself that you can solve some problems. And that you can overcome what is in front of you. And doing so in that setting. You're by yourself on the wheelchair van. And so that was it forces you to overcome some of those issues. And so because I'm not from Denver, and so I didn't really know where I was going, I never really driven around there. And so it was good to go through those moments of anxiety, so to speak, to try to, to overcome it. And I think that built a lot of confidence in me.

Jerry D. Lund  7:41  
Yeah, I I could see how just you know, riding around that van, you got to like, strike up a conversation, you know, you can use your basic EMT skills to like, do some inquisitive things, but that's probably those people in those positions probably have a lot of information then they could share with you.

Sam & Chris Adams  7:59  
I think Oh, absolutely.

Jerry D. Lund 8:01  
Any The other thing is anybody's ever driven any like EMS has been lost.

Sam & Chris Adams  8:09  
Yeah, yeah. Well, I think it's good because in the position I'm in now I try to be patient, you know, especially because because we've got our ambulance contractors, how, you know, they've got a lot, a lot of new kids in there. And so just just letting them do their thing. And getting into the hospital, I think is valuable and not understanding where they're coming from as far as it's their first day. Maybe. Yes. Well, yeah, not adding any stress to the situation that you don't need to Yes, crazy. I think about my time at the I was just thinking about this my time at BLS. So that would be our like, inner facility transport but on an ambulance, more hospice type transports and things like that. That was I think, I've had the most significant call in my entire career on a BLS ambulance do an inter facility transports. And so when you look back at those things, it can really help you to move forward a little bit when you begin to get frustrated because the excitements not there, or the expectations of having these happen, highly intense calls. They're not coming as as frequently as you expected them to. And so sometimes I look back at some of those more simple so to speak, calls and that really brings you back to what it is that we're trying to do and grounds you so that you can get back to the basics so to speak, and really start taking care of people in a very Real Way.

Jerry D. Lund 10:01  
So yeah, I bet that's probably a whole different type of transport, you know, doing if they're mostly hospice patients, because that's right, those people are expected to pass away soon. Yeah. So yeah, conversations, probably a lot different with them.

Sam & Chris Adams  10:18  
It is, it's a lot different and your interaction with them is, is on a unique level, I think because you're this stranger that walks into this situation where there may be lots of emotions going on the family members presence. And so you really have to be very considerate, and also use your words wisely. And really, it's where you can really begin to develop and employ the attributes that are so important for responders like compassion, and humility, and those sorts of things. And you can really begin to develop those those things if you take the opportunity in front of you to do so. And that's really, I guess, what I'm thinking back what I really was able to take away from those sorts of jobs about BLS and paratransit, or paratransit or wheelchair van type situations.

Jerry D. Lund  11:25  
Yeah, I mean, it's those people that are on hospice, and I think it's you establish a unique bond with them very, very fast. It's because they're super you're they're being you're they're being super vulnerable, I think at that point, and I'm sure, I mean, I've found myself in situations like that you're being vulnerable to and just trying to make sure that compassion for they have compassion for you, because they feel like, you know, a lot of times that they're, I don't know, like impeding on you, or like taking something away from you're like, No, no, this is our job, we really love to do this type of thing. And I think it's just a very unique, quick bond that happens. 

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Sam & Chris Adams  12:34  
Yeah, I would I remember, I remember that, as well. And I remember quite a few different hospice transports that were pretty meaningful, I think you can get much more, you're in a really pretty intimate setting. And everybody knows what's going on. And then what's going to happen in the near future. And so you can have some pretty interesting conversations, I think for sure.

Jerry D. Lund 13:00  
Yeah, I think it's a lot about for what you guys are talking about where you're at in your job, there's a lot of information and skills you can gain.

Sam & Chris Adams  13:10  
Absolutely, that's where the fundamentals began. I think really, I mean, I'm a believer that what we do as first responders is largely human interaction, and not as much specific skill sets. I think a lot of its understanding situations and human interaction.

Jerry D. Lund  13:31  
Yeah, no, I I totally agree. And I think it's a struggle for some who don't have the skills to talk to other people or other patients that kind of like, it's a little bit awkward, like, it's hard to teach somebody, sometimes those skills, if they haven't learned them, especially if they're in their early ages of the fire department, they're like you would expect sometimes for them to have those skills already developed.

Sam & Chris Adams  13:59  
Yeah, I totally agree with that. It's so much more than than the skills of interventions and things like that. Just simply talking to somebody and sort of interviewing them and trying to, you know, like, what Sam always says is make a friend in 15 minutes and really try and gain their gain their confidence so that they can really trust what it is you're doing, and what you want to do or see or be you know. And it's really those positions that were put in that if you take the opportunity to develop those sorts of things, you really can find that it's very beneficial in the long run.

Jerry D. Lund  14:46  
Yeah, I think we've probably all been on calls and it's like, we're people don't really need anything other than maybe just your touch and just some conversation.

Sam & Chris Adams  14:59  
Yeah, that's probably the majority of calls we go on.

Jerry D. Lund  15:02  
Right? Yeah. So let's and so have you guys had any story? We're going to talk about your books because you got a few of them now. How did you start to form an idea around why we should create some books?

Sam & Chris Adams  15:21  
Well, I was, I had been training a couple people and been precepting them in our process that we do. We call it a blue book process where we put them through a different a bunch of different scenarios. And then that's kind of the the field instruction process that we use. And so I was doing that regularly. And realized, just there's, there's a need in the in the EMS community and whether it's fire based or not to try to have a good idea and standardized way of bringing people along. And I realized that I wasn't teaching so much specific skill sets, or, you know, rehashing cardiology, and pharmacology, although those things are obviously extremely important. Like, you have to have that knowledge before we even really began. And just how responsive people were to try to get a little bit more in depth with a bigger picture of what we're trying to do as, as EMS professionals, and then I kind of came to the realization of trying to develop this idea of the integrated approach, where we integrate a couple of different disciplines and make them harmonize, and how to make that harmonize so that you can produce a really good provider. And so I was just kind of tooling around with the idea of some of these things. And one morning on my way to work, because I get up, I have to get up pretty early to get get to work. And one morning, I just done it kind of started dictating some things on my phone, and then came to Chris, probably a week or so later, and had him read over it. It wasn't very long as maybe two or 3000 words at the time. And I said, "What do you you know, what do you think about this? And what are your kind of thoughts on that", and he, he was on board, he's like, "You know, let's, let's try to put this organizes to, to some degree and maybe put a book together". So that was really how life and death matters kind of started. Very cool. There. Yeah, it was, it was it was sort of, I remember, we were sitting down. And initially, we, we sort of developed some thoughts, and then it just sort of was going to be maybe a department wide type of, you know, training that we could put together. And once we started to sit down and really talk about it a little bit more, it sort of morphed into something that was a little bit larger than I think both of us anticipated. And it was kind of fun. Because really early on, I think we said to each other, you go independent of each other, you go write an outline of what you think is important and how we can what you want to include in a in a book. And I'll do the same over here. And then we'll merge them together. And after doing that, we really, I think had a pretty good product at the end of the day, to start writing some stuff down and really develop the entire book of life and death matters.

Jerry D. Lund  18:54  
Yeah, let's talk a little bit about what's in that book of Life and Death matters.

Sam & Chris Adams  19:00  
Well, really, it what it goes over is what we call the integrated approach. And it defines what that means and the components within the integrated approach to to pre hospital medicine. And so I think there's three things that we really have to integrate in order to have a great provider. And that's obviously number one being a good foundational knowledge of, of medicine in general prehospital medicine, not necessarily stuff that's outside of that scope, but prehospital medicine, for sure, you know, some basic cardiology, basic pharmacology and things like that. And then what we call your personal character attributes, like interpersonal skills like communication, compassion, empathy, all these different things, and then integrating that with a sound decision making process. And all three of those things are really important to build in In an individual instead of just playing Jeopardy with what is this a bundle branch block or not. And so integrating all three of those things, making them harmonize, that's really what the books about and, and how to do that and how to try to react to certain situation that we find ourselves in. So it goes over all that stuff in depth. And I think largely what I learned writing that book is that I'm not a very good writer. And so, well, we already knew that. There was, yeah, there was extensive editing that needed to take place. But it was, it was definitely a good learning process. And I think it's, you know, it's not going to win a Nobel Prize for writing by any means. But there's definitely some extremely valuable content and context within those pages. 

Jerry D. Lund  20:56  
Did you? Okay, good. 

Sam & Chris Adams  20:58  
Oh, I was gonna say, you know, it was interesting when we were writing it, because we break things down into, for example, the, like, the attributes of a first responder, we begin with humility. And we begin with the importance of humility, and why that really plays such a pivotal role as a first responder. But as you as we started to add these attributes, that's just one example. You begin to more deeply think about, well, why is that important? What does that actually mean? What does integrity mean, as it relates to the first responder, and, you know, I think that in large measure, all of us in this world of EMS are very much aware of those attributes. But I think in some ways, they get used as buzzwords for importance, but we don't take the time to evaluate why they're so important, and what they mean to us as responders specifically. And so I think, first, our life and death matters, really attempts to define those things in a real way for first responders so that they have a little bit of teeth that they can sink, their their practice into, and really be able to articulate what it is that they're thinking, and, and why they're thinking that. 

Jerry D. Lund  21:02  
Yeah, I like I like that. Because that's reading those things can make you ponder yourself, what those things mean to you, and how you can maybe either bring them out some strong things, or where we where you're weak, you can add some things by reading this. So Oh, good, good. 

Sam & Chris Adams  22:59  
Well, I was just gonna say, I think the other benefit too, is that I think for a large majority of the first responders in our in the country, they already, I think, do a lot of these things, intrinsically, but they This defines it, this kind of just this defines it for them. And there may they may be already thinking some of this stuff, but it really goes a little bit deeper, so that it can better understand what why they're thinking it or why they are behaving in the way that they're behaving. Because it just kind of defines that professionalism for the first responder.

Jerry D. Lund  23:37  
Very, very awesome. So between you two, are you guys very similar in your approach to things? Or is one of you stronger? Technical wise, in like, what's your? How does that divide up when you write these books? I could, who's doing what?

Sam & Chris Adams  23:54  
I'm, you know, I guess I I don't know, I guess a lot of it was just, I think I tried to make a goal. As far as writing the book goes, I tried to make a goal for just putting 1000 words down a day, and follow a basic outline that we had put together, and kind of came together on and what was important to me, versus what was important to Chris putting putting words on paper. So I kind of just tried to stick to a disciplined approach of put 1000 words down based on the outline that you have already written. And then we'll go from there. And I think that I think at the end, we had like, almost 100,000 words, or 80,080 to 100,000 words. And we had to cut that back significantly to get to where we're at now. And it just kind of went from there. But I think as far as technically speaking, I'm definitely not a good writer. I mean, lots of edits and rewrites. And even then, I mean, I'm sure you go through there and edit it a million more times. But yeah, at some point, you got to pull the trigger. Right out.

Jerry D. Lund  25:06  
Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. What was your like? How was your approach? We were doing the same type of thing, just trying to get get some words out onto some paper or into a document?

Sam & Chris Adams  25:19  
Yep, yep, we started our, our additional goal. And mine was very similar to say, I'm just trying to get some words down on paper every day. And I think that at the end of the day, it's a general principle where really consistency is so important. And it really begins to build a successful path. And so consistently doing those sorts of things every day, really, at the end of the process really paid off in the long term. But for me, yeah, I, I tried to get some words down. And and then, when we brought in, we started looking together at what we had created, there was a lot of stuff that Sam had, that I began to look at and read and was like, "Oh, I think I can add a little bit here, add a little bit there". And likewise, he would do the same for the things that I wrote down. And so the book Life and death matters is broken into three sections, the kind of the attributes of a first responder to character of the first responder, then there's the third section, which I think I probably added a little bit more, because I, that was something that was important to me. And it was really the the section of teaching others and trying to build a build a little bit of framework for people to look at and say this is really the important aspects of being a preceptor and teaching, teaching some other folks. And then we combined together on the second section of building a framework for success in general. And so it was really kind of a fun, fun, little process.

Jerry D. Lund  27:21  
Yeah, I'm sure it probably helped you be in brothers, right.

Sam & Chris Adams  27:25  
Yeah. Yeah. I think that a lot of the way that we practice medicine in general is pretty similar. And so that, that definitely helps. I'm sure there's differences there. But the collaboration, it helps the collaboration for sure.

Jerry D. Lund  27:42  
Yeah, yeah. So you write this book? And then did you feel like you have two more books that you you've created, like your, your second book, The Field medics workbook, when when you're writing this book, did you feel like, oh, we have one more in us? Or how the second come about?

Sam & Chris Adams  28:01  
Yeah, ah, well, the other one was a little bit more planned out, I think, because, and then, after we had finished the first one, it just wasn't as robust POS, as we really wanted. And so we decided to do a workbook to try to give a better outline of what we do in the internship, like, how do we actually talk to the guys that we're training? And why the conversations that we have with all these different men and women that we're going through field instruction with? Why do we have those conversations? What are those conversations look like more specifically? And so it goes over that much more in depth, and tries to create a couple of different ways to develop people.

Jerry D. Lund  28:57  
And go ahead, go ahead, Chris.

Sam & Chris Adams  28:59  
Sorry. Yeah, I was just gonna stay. I was just gonna say that the the life and death matters really presents like what Sam was saying the integrated approach of integrating medical knowledge with character attributes, interpersonal skills and decision making. And then our second book, the field, medics workbook, dives into more of a training plan, the process to train people and a good it just gets people a framework to begin precepting somebody and begin developing other individuals and like Sam said, what the conversations are that that need to take place and how to how to have those conversations I think, to a large degree,

Jerry D. Lund  29:56  
And how did you to form this workbook? Is this from your personal experiences on how to talk to people and how to to be a preceptor, or where'd you go for this information?

Sam & Chris Adams  30:09  
Yeah, it was basically all from what we do. But I didn't, we didn't consult anybody or consult any other literature on how to how to do that. It was really from 10 years of experience of training people, and what they respond to realistically instead of theoretically, and so I know, there's probably plenty of literature out there that presents theories on how to do things. But this is a realistic approach of how you actually really have to talk to people and what realistically gets them, build some confidence creates decision making processes for them, implements, you know, consistency and reliability in what that looks like. And so a lot of it was just from our own experience of training, so many people that it gave us the it gave us the information needed to be able to write that write that book ourselves. And I think a lot of it is that I think a lot of the benefit of it is that we're paramedics like we're paramedics too, and make mistakes. We but we're not like some PhD Psychologist writing a book telling a paramedic, what they need to talk to somebody about. This is not that's not what we're trying to do, or am I qualified to do, but I am qualified to talk about what realistically happens on a call. And so I think it translates in my opinion, I think it translates a lot better to the paramedic, specifically because they were in the same role. We're doing the same job where it doesn't matter where you are in the country as a COPD or as a COPD or, and so I think that it's more it's well received because of that. Yeah, I like that approach. Yeah, I'd agree with that. And I would also add that, I think it's really super cool that these two books are both really sort of unique as it relates to EMS. Because all the other literature out there really deals with the first component that we're integrating, and that being the medical knowledge, most literature deals with, trying to expand that medical knowledge, which obviously, that's a component that needs to be integrated, it's super important, you have to have a very good foundation of that. But there's, there's really more to it than just having that component. And so these both these books are sort of unique in that they develop the other processes that are really pivotal to making a successful confident provider. And so I don't think there's much literature out there that that would be a, a add as much value as both of these books really.

Jerry D. Lund  33:14  
I like that you, this is coming from your your practical knowledge and experience to create this book, because you guys, I'm sure have been on many of calls, right probably into the several 1000s and 1000s of calls that you've been on and been able to learn from those calls and put it into a book to help accelerate other paramedics knowledge and the way to talk people and to train people.

Sam & Chris Adams  33:43  
Yeah, I think that's really that's exactly what the goal was. And that's what drove us to create our third product really, which is the PADL course, which we can talk about in a minute. But trying to the real goal, in general was to bridge the gap that we see from there's a there's a gap that happens and there's a bunch of lag time that takes place. From the time of individual paramedic starts practicing on their own, to the time they actually become confident and are proficient at what they're doing. And that doesn't mean that they're incapable during that time, or they're inadequate. But it just means that they're probably not at the level of confidence that they should be in order to really make decisive choices on how to intervene in certain situations. And it can be a nerve wracking couple years really, I really it was it was nerve racking for me for sure. And so and that lasted for me, at least two years, maybe three years before I felt much more confident in what I was doing. And so these books, and especially the PADL course really go through, how do we reduce that lag time from two or three years? down to maybe a couple couple of months and give people and provide people the tools of how do you build confidence, confidence? And what stages are you naturally going to go through. Because in my experience, trainings, individuals, every single one of them goes through different these different stages that we talked about in the books, and specifically in the workbook, and then in a course, and everybody goes through those stages. And, and so understanding what stage you're in, as far as building confidence goes, and understanding how having a good outline for how to make decisions, how to, and what that methodical approach of decision making looks like, is super beneficial.

Jerry D. Lund  35:43  
Yeah, I know, this is gonna sound like a very elementary question. But, you know, when a what does it look like when you're a paramedic and you're not confident?

Sam & Chris Adams 35:55  
Hesitation, I was gonna say this, I was gonna say the same thing. It's, it's hesitation. And it's also it's it's indecision where you become sort of paralyzed and unwilling to make a decision or concerned about the consequences of the decision that you're that you have to make. And I don't mean concerned in terms of there being like, a negative outcome as far as like some sort of punitive action, but a concern of, "Am I doing the right thing for the patient?". And so those sorts of those sorts of thoughts in the mind of the of the paramedic, that's not confident are should be red flags that we need to develop a process that can force them to become more confident. I think those are, those are super important. And I think that's what a paramedic, that's not confident, would be experiencing.

Jerry D. Lund  37:04  
And how do you suggest we build confidence in these paramedics? Or EMTs, right, starting out?

Sam & Chris Adams  37:14  
Yeah, yeah, well, we do we do specifically, what I've learned is that, and I don't know, this might be written down somewhere else. But this is what what I've come up with and what Chris has come up with collaboratively. And I see people go through the exact same process as far as confidence building goes. And it really begins with discipline, and we created an entire an entire lecture that I give to everyone I train, and it's about the confidence wheel, that we recreated this thing called the confidence wheel. And it goes through what, what processes are what, what do you go through, in order to build confidence, what's the natural, natural progression of building confidence in any discipline, it's not just EMS, or fire or medicine in general, it can be building confidence in playing the guitar, it all of these things must, the individual has to go through and progress through each of these different stages. And so we start with the self discipline, moving into intention. And there's a lot of things that go into these things that we go over and discuss it in detail, and then going into consistency, and then reliability, and then building habits, and then you're able to execute, and then it goes right back into disciplined. And so we go over in detail and in the workbook, and also the course of what does that look like? What does that mean? And we define it much better. And so that's really the stages that someone has to go through in order to build confidence. And that's what I've seen over a decade of training people is that they always go through those stages, if they're going to become confident.

Jerry D. Lund  39:06  
What happens to so there are medics that it's the lose their confidence is can they refer back to this will to regain their confidence?

Sam & Chris Adams  39:18  
Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's what's so super cool about this process that we've developed is that it is ongoing, it's continually moving you as an individual provider forward. And so when you do lose confidence in specific areas that come up or for, for example, you don't run a specific type of call for a long period of time and then it happens and you sort of have some hesitation because you haven't been you're not up to date on everything that should be taking place while that is where it begins with your self discipline, again, to now move into the studies, figure out what it is you're supposed to do, and then become, at the end of the wheel, way more confident in your execution of a treatment plan, or of how you're going to intervene with that specific situation.

Jerry D. Lund  40:21  
Yeah, I like that. Because as you go through your life as a medic and stuff like that, there's many ups and downs and different things going on in your career, and it's sometimes hard to be at your best at every single discipline, you know, required to be a great, great medic.

Sam & Chris Adams  40:40  
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. Yeah. I was just gonna say once you begin your paramedic school, and you've become a student, paramedic, really, that's the that's the stage of your entire career. You're always a student paramedic, you're always trying to learn more and become better, and sort of refine your practice and refine your skills. You're always a student of pre hospital medicine, for sure.

Jerry D. Lund  41:17  
Yeah, it's always changing it. Yeah.

Sam & Chris Adams  41:20  
It's always changing, which is why this is so cool, because it's a tool that people can use to continually build themselves. Yeah. Well, that's why it starts with self discipline. Because if you've got if you start there, it the natural progression will become for you to as an individual to take a good look at yourself where you're at, in your practice, what you need to work on, and, or what you kind of neglected, and then kind of rehash and get yourself back up to speed through that discipline.

Jerry D. Lund  42:02  
Yeah, so you've you've, you've made these two books, and now you have the PADL course, let's dive into the PADL course. That's what that's about.

Sam & Chris Adams  42:14  
Yeah, so the PADL course was, we had written these two books, and we wanted to try to put something together for people to look at online. And it just so happened, that kind of COVID hit. And so everything was going online anyway. And so much training was taking place in that kind of context. So we put together a bunch of slideshows, and kind of a lot of the same collaboration, like what do you what do you think about this? And adding to each other's slideshows that we had built, and came together about? How do we try to just more refine and organize what we do as preceptors, the whole process, like, from the beginning to for life, and death matters to building the power course, was really trying to refine what we're talking about, about how to actually bring someone along. And so we developed this course, that's it stands for paramedic assessment, development and leadership. And there's four courses within the entire class, and each one goes through how to assess your candidate list paramedic assessment, how do you what are you looking for? What's important to look for? And how do you assess them? paramedic development, giving a bunch of tools of what the methodical approach looks like? How to create a sound decision making process within your candidate and make that reproducible? Having them implemented consistently, then it becomes reliable, then they're able to build habits off it, and then they're able to execute treatment plants. And so what does that look like? What's the what's that process? And then paramedic leadership, I think, maybe the most neglected piece of the entire training that paramedics get is that they're not informed that they are now in the capacity of a former leader, and especially when they're a sole paramedic on scene, and they're the highest medical authority. And so, I think that that's we do a great disservice to our first responders all over the country, that they're not informed that you are now a formal leader. What does that consist of? Why are you a formal leader, as defined by leadership? What does that look like? And then we go through a bunch of different tools of how to navigate a leadership position. What are the dynamics of leadership, the three dynamics of leadership we go through? We go through the three styles of leadership, and then a bunch of different types leadership within that course. And so all all three of those. And then in conjunction with the first course being PADL defined, what is PADL? What is the integrated approach really is what we're getting at why are all three of these other courses so important, and in order to become integrated in your practice, and so that's kind of how we went through it, it's about a, the entire course is roughly six hours, a little bit over six hours, but it's broken up into really about 20 minutes segments on each, each thing. And I think there's 18 segments, and so 18 or 19 segments, and so it's really digestible, for someone to listen to pretty quickly. But there's so much, there's so much information in there, just as far as how to develop an individual. Yeah, they say that, Oh, I was gonna say the super cool thing about the PADL course, that adds to both of our books, I think, are is primarily the leadership component that Sam just spoke about. And the concept that we bring forward as far as it being really important that paramedics realize and understand that they're formal leaders in the capacity that they're in. And then we also go through it really, really trying to find the paramedic development, decision making process, what it is, what are the steps that people go through, to be confident that they're making sound decisions, and how you evaluate that. And then also, the methodical approach and what that looks like, and why it's super important to be methodical in your practice. And then at the end of the, at the end of all of this, I think it's super important that we as preceptors, understand a few components of evaluations so that we can be confident as preceptors, that we're putting out a good product, what are the things that are the components that we as Preceptors are looking for in a candidate so that we're confident that they're going out and get to be a good independent provider, and it's super beneficial, because when you inform the candidate that these sorts of things are what you're looking for, they become more confident as well, because now they can say, Okay, you're actually evaluating very specific things in my ability to perform. And so it's no longer the, hey, we're gonna run a couple of calls. Hopefully, nothing bad happens. And we'll get you through this. It's more, we're gonna run a bunch of calls, these those calls are sort of snapshots in the in, in the bigger picture of the internship in general. And so we kind of set a bunch of that stuff up in the power course. And I think it's super important to do so. And it's really kind of a fun course to go through.

Jerry D. Lund  48:27  
I really like that you guys did this course. Because so I let's say, I've been a medic for 14 years. Does that make me a good preceptor? Because I've been a medic for 14 years? 

Sam & Chris Adams  48:40  
Maybe, maybe right now, right? It's, it's definitely not. It's definitely not the sole factor. You'd want somebody that's got some got some calls under their belt? For sure, I would say, but it's definitely not the sole contributing factor to whether or not you are capable of training somebody else.

Jerry D. Lund  49:07  
Yeah. And that's and that's the part that I that I really like that you guys have established a course to do that because I think so often in fire and EMS and probably several other first responder disciplines that there's not this course that teaches you how to be a good preceptor. It's just like, Oh, you've got experience. And yeah, so we're gonna set you up with this new guy and then go ahead and, you know, teach him what you know.

Sam & Chris Adams  49:36  
Yeah, it's right. You're right. Yeah, it's super cool, because the this PADL course has been adopted really all internationally. There's agencies that have used this course to help streamline their training program. And you know, it's not it's not infallible, there's no there's certainly things that you can look at and say, "Well, I want to adopt this or this". But it really what it does is it builds a good foundation so that every preceptor within a agency are sort of jumping off together, and they're all on the same page. And then the agency knows, this is the product that we're trying to go for, or this is what we're looking to achieve within our preceptor programs. And so it's really, it's really good at streamlining and making everybody sort of get on the same page, so to speak.

Jerry D. Lund  50:38  
Yeah, that's incredibly important, when you're rapidly growing like most departments across the country, you know, establishing, some kind of uniformity on what you do, and, and getting these people that are probably experiences are varying all over the place up to the level that your department wants them to be.

Sam & Chris Adams  50:59  
Yeah, and I would also add that it's, it's important for the agencies, and it could be really beneficial, I think, obviously, in my opinion. But I also think that it's really important, just for an individual preceptor, because now there's something out there that can show them a sort of a framework to and a structure to begin interning people and begin precepting people. And so then they can take this course, and they and they can utilize the tools that we give you in the course, and begin to build this framework. And then when they start becoming a seasoned preceptor or a continual preceptor, they have a, they have a structure that they're using, and it makes them more confident as a as a preceptor in the first place, because now they know that what they're doing is reliable, and they can fall back on, on the tools that we give them, instead of just trying to start over every single time with a new candidate.

Jerry D. Lund  52:11  
Yeah, yeah, I that that saves time and creates this uniform. It's just so important to be like uniform, creating uniform people throughout the department. So you don't have like, various preceptors creating various types of paramedics.

Sam & Chris Adams  52:31  
Right, right. Well, I think the other thing that's unique about this course, that's that's maybe the most important thing is that it shows the that shows the individual preceptor how to focus on the success of the individual, their training, and what that looks like, how do you, how do you devote your time and energy towards someone else's success. And it really gets away from the, hey, I ran a shooting one time, and this is what I did. And so I decompress the chest here. And that's what you need to do? Well, those things are valuable in context, maybe. But it really avoids the idea of telling a bunch of stories and playing Jeopardy in the back of an ambulance, or that the firehouse and focuses your attention on really developing the individual and devoting your time to that.

Jerry D. Lund  53:32  
I'm going to follow up with that. Sam, do you think the fire service sometimes has a problem with focusing on people's success? And and sometimes too often focusing on people's failures in a negative way?

Sam & Chris Adams  53:49  
Yeah, maybe? Yeah, I think it just depends. It's probably agency specific, or case by case. And I know that we've really tried to create a just culture where we just want a reporting to take place in a positive manner and in a positive way, so that we can learn from it. And I know for us that's been super beneficial. It's, it's very beneficial for me, because I, I have made plenty of mistakes in my career. And so I think that as it relates to the Preceptor specifically, in the fire service or in EMS, I think there's a tendency to demonstrate one's own capability rather than build somebody else's capability. I think that we have a tendency to do that. And this really focuses the person towards creating somebody else's ability. If you're if you are a preceptor, and you've been a medic for 14 years, 15 years, it should that should speak for itself. You don't need to necessarily demonstrate your own capabilities and that's not what we're there for. We're not there to prove to somebody else that I can innovate somebody. I'm here to help you learn how to and more importantly, when to intubate somebody.

Jerry D. Lund  55:12  
Yeah, like that. I like that.

Sam & Chris Adams  55:15  
And I think to add on to that, what's super cool about both of these books, and the PADL course, is, I think, in large measure, the new preceptor thinks that by they have a, they have a genuine desire to want to help somebody because they're in a preceptor role in the first place. But they don't don't necessarily know how to and so they do fall back on what they done, that has been successful, what types of calls they've run, that there was a good outcome. And they think that that's because that's made them a good paramedic, that in turn is going to make their candidate a good paramedic, when really, the candidate more needs to know how to make decisions. What's the process to evaluate patients? As far as compassion and interpersonal skills? What's the process of building confidence when I can't fall back on the preceptor in my own practice? How do I do that? What am I trying to accomplish Jerry, so as a preceptor, taking this course, it's super valuable, because then it gives you a lot more tools at your disposal to develop somebody.

Jerry D. Lund  56:44  
Yeah, and it's those the books and the courses, I think you guys are like, onto something really great. Any future plans to do anything?

Sam & Chris Adams  56:56  
Um, we've been kind of talking about maybe redoing the book Life and death matters and doing a second edition of it, just kind of cleaning it up a little bit. But that would be way down the road, probably. But right now, we're just kind of trying to focus on getting the books and also the paddle course, into people's hands, because it's just, it's hard for people to take it if they don't even know it exists. Right. So trying to promote those things, and really the paddle course, to help people out, I think there's a big need for, from what I've seen in in my own career. There's definitely a desire of our first responders to want to help others and want to help others within our own community. But there's no real direction on how to do that. And so Chris and I are trying to develop that process of how do you train somebody into become a paramedic specifically, and creating our own program that you get a certificate of completion on I think really is the is the end game for us.

Jerry D. Lund  58:13  
Yet where where can people find these the course and find the books?

Sam & Chris Adams  58:21  
So well, the Oh, go ahead, bro. No, I was gonna say just the course you just go to www.padlecourse.com. And it'll come right up. And then you can go through it. And there's there's four different courses there that you can put in the cart. And then the books can go right to Amazon. If you go right to Amazon. You can look up Life and Death matters. And it'll pop up or you can look up the Field Medics workbook and it'll pop up. Or you can go to our other website at field-medics.com And those things will pop up as well.

Jerry D. Lund  59:03  
I can't remember are they on Audible? The two books? 

Sam & Chris Adams  59:06  
No, no, no, just yeah, not yet. Just just the old fashioned way.

Jerry D. Lund  59:14  
That's a really good way. A lot of times for this these type of books, though, because you can get in there with your highlighter and stuff and make notes.

Sam & Chris Adams  59:22  
You're gonna do it. Oh, I was just gonna mention it. We made a a promo code for all your listeners to go to the PADL course and get 50% off of the entire course. And so all the listeners and hopefully we put that in the show notes, we will. But I think that it's super valuable. And I think people really have set such great feedback and we've had a really good response that we want to try and get it out there. So we're going to give everybody out there listening a pretty good discount on it.

Jerry D. Lund  1:00:00
Do you have that code that we can put in the show notes?

Sam & Chris Adams  1:00:04
Yeah, it's gonna be. So if you go to for all the listeners out there if you go to padlcourse.com, and then put all four courses in your cart. And after you put all four courses in your cart, the promo code that you use will be endure911. So, if you do that promo code, you'll you'll receive the discount, and, and then you can move forward from there. But you have to have just as a technical technical note, you have to have all four courses in the, in the cart, in order for the promo code to work.

Jerry D. Lund  1:00:42  
That's exciting. Thank you guys so much. I didn't expect that. That's going to be great for the listeners. And we'll make sure we get it in on our social media and get it into our email, as well. Where can people follow you on social media?

Sam & Chris Adams  1:00:58
So the easiest place to find us on social media is on Instagram, @fieldmedics, that would be the easiest place to both get in touch with us and kind of see what we're doing. We're also on Facebook and Twitter. But Instagram is the is the is the main social media outlet that we use.

Jerry D. Lund  1:01:17
Awesome. Before we wrap up the podcast today, anything else that you guys want to talk about or that I've made, breezed over because there's so many great books and courses here that I may have might have left something that you guys are have something to say.

Sam & Chris Adams  1:01:34  
I can't I can't think of anything else. Specifically, I just think thank you for the opportunity. Thank you for what you're doing, getting the getting the word out for us and also putting together just such a great podcast. So thanks for having us on. And oh, man, it's been it's been a little bit of time, but I think it was worth worth it. So appreciate it.

Jerry D. Lund  1:01:57  
No, thank you. That was been awesome.

Sam & Chris Adams  1:02:00
Yeah, I don't have anything else. I just wanted to mention real quick that that is a that's a 50% discount on all those. So and it's indefinite. So it's there's unlimited numbers there. But I've got I just really appreciate you having us on here. What a great platform. And that's about it, man.

Jerry D. Lund  1:02:23  
Yeah, no, thank you so much. It was a little bit time getting on. But I think you're right. It was well worth the wait because you have all these courses and the books done. And so it's been exciting to be with you here today. So thank you for being on the show. 

Sam & Chris Adams  1:02:38
Thank you. Thank you. 

Fire and Fuel Apparel  1:02:41  
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Outro  1:02:53  
Thanks again for listening. Don't forget to rate and review the show wherever you access your podcasts. If you know someone that would be great on the show, please get a hold of our hosts Jerry Dean Lund through the Instagram handles @jerryfireandfuel or @enduringthebadgepodcast. Also by visiting the show's website, enduringthebadgepodcast.com for additional methods of contact and up to date information regarding the show. Remember the views and opinions expressed during the show, solely represent those of our hosts and the current episodes guests.